Comments on: About those Jefferson bottles…

By: Audrey

Audrey — Fri, 07 Dec 2012 17:24:47 +0000

We have to acknowledge historical figures triumphs and failings. We celebrate Jefferson’s many achievements and we should just as well recognize his wrongs. Not so we can condone or chastise them, but so we can learn from their actions and correct our paths if they need correcting. He isn’t an idol, he was a man.

By: Wino

Wino — Wed, 05 Dec 2012 21:02:29 +0000

Sorry for all the typos. Yikes.

By: Wino

Wino — Wed, 05 Dec 2012 21:01:57 +0000

Dlynch: Isn’t the definition of “racisom” and pretty much all “isms” is a fluid and constantly changing and mostly defined by the times, economics and geography, not to mention experience and education? Plenty of what was normal then is appalling now so is it fair to apply our values to people who were almost as close, time-wise, to the late Middle Ages as they are to us? It’s easy to sit back, 250 years later and criticize the behavior and philosophy of 18th and early 19th century people, but you’re doing it through a lens of enlightenment and experience that they didn’t enjoy. One can imagine how people 250 years from now will look at and judge us. Will it be fair if our morality doesn’t match up to whatever is theirs at that time? How do you feel about deconstruction in literature?

By: Dlynch

Dlynch — Wed, 05 Dec 2012 17:05:57 +0000

Wino: This is from the Monticello website-
“Thomas Jefferson was a consistent opponent of slavery his whole life. Calling it a “moral depravity” and a “hideous blot”"
If he in fact sold slaves to pay for wine purchases, then he is by any reasonable definition a hypocrite. He may have been just like a lot of other hypocrites of his day, but a hypocrite nonetheless. That said, Jefferson was never really an advocate for emancipation and integration- he was in favor of colonization for the black population beyond the boundaries of the US. He was basically a racist, who thought slavery was an evil institution, yet was willing to exploit it for his own financial benefit. Sounds complicated, but certainly self-serving.

By: Wino

Wino — Wed, 05 Dec 2012 14:47:05 +0000

CR – History doesn’t agree with you. And not all signers of the Declaration of Independence were abolitionists. The ones who were sure didn’t flex it when the document was drawn up, which would make them hypocrites as well, no? In fact, there is no mention of slavery made in the document whatsoever. Revisionist history is dangerous stuff.

By: CR

CR — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:38:31 +0000

Wino,

Considering that the international slave trade was abolished during Jefferson’s presidency and that other signers of the Declaration were strong abolitionists, it’s hardly “applying 21st century values” to criticize his hypocrisy on the subject.

By: NEWS FETCH – DECEMBER 3, 2012 | Wine Industry Insight

NEWS FETCH – DECEMBER 3, 2012 | Wine Industry Insight — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 15:02:53 +0000

[...] About those Jefferson bottles [...]

By: Wino

Wino — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 06:42:04 +0000

I love it when 21st century people apply their values to people who lived three centuries years ago. Hilarious.

By: RobinC

RobinC — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 04:44:16 +0000

At least the Jefferson bottles that Hardy Rodenstock “unearthed” were not bought with human flesh, although I’ll bet that some of the buyers felt that they had been flayed.

By: Dave Erickson

Dave Erickson — Sun, 02 Dec 2012 21:37:25 +0000

Yes, that’s not just racist, it’s gruesome.

By: Dr. Vino

Dr. Vino — Sun, 02 Dec 2012 15:45:21 +0000

Dave,

Yes, it’s not news that Jefferson was a slave owner. But the op-ed says that a major new biography downplays that important aspect of his life. And the piece happened to make explicit the connection between his slave owning and wine buying.

By: Dave Erickson

Dave Erickson — Sat, 01 Dec 2012 22:26:23 +0000

It is not really news that Jefferson was a racist, but good all the same to see the matter raised again. He was also an early provider of rhetoric for the Secessionists, and in his advocacy of the "yeoman farmer" an early advocate for the anti-urban "red state" mentality. For mind-numbing detail, check out this 1996 piece from The Atlantic