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	<title>Comments on: Pairing pinotage with the elephant in the room</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.drvino.com/2012/10/04/pinotage-elephant/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/10/04/pinotage-elephant/</link>
	<description>wine talk that goes down easy</description>
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		<title>By: Dr. Vino</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/10/04/pinotage-elephant/#comment-397950</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Vino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2012 02:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11441#comment-397950</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dolan - Ken is hilarious, isn&#039;t he? Great fodder for journalists. Also makes some v good wines. 

Funny to learn that they IMW group trips (as an &quot;arrogance&quot; - LOL) are written up but the accounts are not made public! So how did the 1977 and 1994 trip reports wield such influence outside the Institute?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dolan &#8211; Ken is hilarious, isn&#8217;t he? Great fodder for journalists. Also makes some v good wines. </p>
<p>Funny to learn that they IMW group trips (as an &#8220;arrogance&#8221; &#8211; LOL) are written up but the accounts are not made public! So how did the 1977 and 1994 trip reports wield such influence outside the Institute?</p>
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		<title>By: Dermot Nolan MW</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/10/04/pinotage-elephant/#comment-397469</link>
		<dc:creator>Dermot Nolan MW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2012 15:12:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11441#comment-397469</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi all,

Cathy, I think you&#039;ve missed my point somewhat. I have tasted a number of good wines either wholly or partially pinotage. However, I don&#039;t think I have tasted any such wine which is ever likely to be excellent. I pointed out that I rated a rose best on the &#039;04 trip, as well as also rating highly a top-end wine. However, I believe the South African industry is making a mistake to use pinotage as a USP cultivar for the simple reason that I don&#039;t think it&#039;s good enough to do so. I&#039;d much rather see effort on promoting chenin, semillon (of which is very little but a lot seriously good), Bordeaux-blands (Ken Forrester&#039;s views notwithstanding) andRhone wines (bearing in mind the aforementioned Ken&#039;s views LOL!). The really interesting thing is to look at the graph of plantings in South Africa in the last 20 years: under-planting of reds generally and pinotage, the alleged star of the show, static or dropping as a % of total. This suggests that many South Africans are not overly keen on the grape.
In re the peripatetic nature of the Institute, we visit the world all the time in organised groups (the collective noun for a group of MWs is either a nose (you like us) or an arrogance (you know us well!)) but the reports are solely for the members - one good reason to become an MW!
All in all, I find that carmenere, for example, is a far more widley acceptable cultivar than pinotage and I think the South Africans could learn a huge amount from the Chileans in re marketing. 
Anyway, quite an interesting post, given the number of responses. I cannot, however, agree with the comment that I wouldn&#039;t sell any; I can think of 5 to 6 solid producers who get the best out of pinotage whose wines I would both happily sell and drink.

Dermot]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi all,</p>
<p>Cathy, I think you&#8217;ve missed my point somewhat. I have tasted a number of good wines either wholly or partially pinotage. However, I don&#8217;t think I have tasted any such wine which is ever likely to be excellent. I pointed out that I rated a rose best on the &#8217;04 trip, as well as also rating highly a top-end wine. However, I believe the South African industry is making a mistake to use pinotage as a USP cultivar for the simple reason that I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s good enough to do so. I&#8217;d much rather see effort on promoting chenin, semillon (of which is very little but a lot seriously good), Bordeaux-blands (Ken Forrester&#8217;s views notwithstanding) andRhone wines (bearing in mind the aforementioned Ken&#8217;s views LOL!). The really interesting thing is to look at the graph of plantings in South Africa in the last 20 years: under-planting of reds generally and pinotage, the alleged star of the show, static or dropping as a % of total. This suggests that many South Africans are not overly keen on the grape.<br />
In re the peripatetic nature of the Institute, we visit the world all the time in organised groups (the collective noun for a group of MWs is either a nose (you like us) or an arrogance (you know us well!)) but the reports are solely for the members &#8211; one good reason to become an MW!<br />
All in all, I find that carmenere, for example, is a far more widley acceptable cultivar than pinotage and I think the South Africans could learn a huge amount from the Chileans in re marketing.<br />
Anyway, quite an interesting post, given the number of responses. I cannot, however, agree with the comment that I wouldn&#8217;t sell any; I can think of 5 to 6 solid producers who get the best out of pinotage whose wines I would both happily sell and drink.</p>
<p>Dermot</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Erickson</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/10/04/pinotage-elephant/#comment-397421</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Erickson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2012 18:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11441#comment-397421</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d always heard that the key to good pinotage was severe pruning as well as picking within a rather narrow time window for ripeness. I&#039;ve also read that many pinotage vines in South Africa suffer from leafroll (this may be out-of-date by now, I hope?), a virus that among other things prevents grapes from fully ripening. 

I&#039;ve tasted decent pinotage from Warwick, Kanonkop, and Southern Right, and a surprisingly pleasant cheapie from Ken Forrester called &quot;Petit Pinotage.&quot; The best pinotage I ever had came from Mendocino--John Parducci&#039;s McNab Ridge.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d always heard that the key to good pinotage was severe pruning as well as picking within a rather narrow time window for ripeness. I&#8217;ve also read that many pinotage vines in South Africa suffer from leafroll (this may be out-of-date by now, I hope?), a virus that among other things prevents grapes from fully ripening. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve tasted decent pinotage from Warwick, Kanonkop, and Southern Right, and a surprisingly pleasant cheapie from Ken Forrester called &#8220;Petit Pinotage.&#8221; The best pinotage I ever had came from Mendocino&#8211;John Parducci&#8217;s McNab Ridge.</p>
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		<title>By: Nevin</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/10/04/pinotage-elephant/#comment-397160</link>
		<dc:creator>Nevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2012 12:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11441#comment-397160</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Jason, thanks for the clarification.  As a scientist, I am a geologist, I find people in the wine world often use scientific terms without understanding them.  It drives me nuts.  Now back to Pinotage.  

I can&#039;t say my complaint with the variety has been just the off smells but also the lack of balance.  Interestingly the balance has not been off in only one direction.  Some have had high alcohol but a thin body and some have had a big body but insufficient acidity to provide balance.  The worst of the lot just tasted like a bad cup of coffee.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jason, thanks for the clarification.  As a scientist, I am a geologist, I find people in the wine world often use scientific terms without understanding them.  It drives me nuts.  Now back to Pinotage.  </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t say my complaint with the variety has been just the off smells but also the lack of balance.  Interestingly the balance has not been off in only one direction.  Some have had high alcohol but a thin body and some have had a big body but insufficient acidity to provide balance.  The worst of the lot just tasted like a bad cup of coffee.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Vino</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/10/04/pinotage-elephant/#comment-397159</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Vino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2012 12:23:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11441#comment-397159</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dolan and Peter May - thanks for your comments. I did not know about the 1994 MW trip; only the 1977 trip was mentioned during the seminar. (In fact, I didn&#039;t even know that MWs toured the wine world, issuing reports!) Peter, I attended the seminar with an open mind, thanks. But, like Dolan, I didn&#039;t find anything that blew my mind, that&#039;s all (And only a couple in the tasting had a hint of vegetal rubber). There was quite a bit of hype and chest thumping and not a lot of good discussion at the panel that seemed to squander the precious 60 minutes of the session. 

FYI - Beyers Truter was the one from the panel who most vehemently rejected any discussion of pinotage&#039;s controversial character and twice mentioned the succulence of eggs cooked in pinotage.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dolan and Peter May &#8211; thanks for your comments. I did not know about the 1994 MW trip; only the 1977 trip was mentioned during the seminar. (In fact, I didn&#8217;t even know that MWs toured the wine world, issuing reports!) Peter, I attended the seminar with an open mind, thanks. But, like Dolan, I didn&#8217;t find anything that blew my mind, that&#8217;s all (And only a couple in the tasting had a hint of vegetal rubber). There was quite a bit of hype and chest thumping and not a lot of good discussion at the panel that seemed to squander the precious 60 minutes of the session. </p>
<p>FYI &#8211; Beyers Truter was the one from the panel who most vehemently rejected any discussion of pinotage&#8217;s controversial character and twice mentioned the succulence of eggs cooked in pinotage.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Vino</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/10/04/pinotage-elephant/#comment-397156</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Vino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2012 12:08:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11441#comment-397156</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Anthony Rose - Interesting that you flagged transportation. One Swede I saw in South Africa said that one of his colleagues in Sweden was convinced that the South African reds at a burned rubber and/or pyrazine character *only in the northern hemisphere*. He said the guy took a box wine that had those notes in Sweden back to SA and the notes disappeared. While something may happen in transit north, it&#039;s hard to explain how it could disappear if returned to SA.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anthony Rose &#8211; Interesting that you flagged transportation. One Swede I saw in South Africa said that one of his colleagues in Sweden was convinced that the South African reds at a burned rubber and/or pyrazine character *only in the northern hemisphere*. He said the guy took a box wine that had those notes in Sweden back to SA and the notes disappeared. While something may happen in transit north, it&#8217;s hard to explain how it could disappear if returned to SA.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Brandt Lewis</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/10/04/pinotage-elephant/#comment-397084</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Brandt Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2012 15:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11441#comment-397084</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The fact that Pinotage was, and remains, very popular within South Africa isn&#039;t surprising, nor is the statement that the &quot;panel participants surprisingly denied that the grape was controversial.&quot;  To them, it isn&#039;t.

But no one can deny that Pinotage is prone to developing isoamyl acetate, and smells like -- not &quot;burnt rubber&quot; to me, but latex paint.  I have had any number of wines from Pinotage since 1969, when I entered the wine trade, and I can count the number of wine that *I* thought were very good on one hand:  three, one of which I thought was excellent.  

That one excellent wine was never sold in the US, but hand-carried back from South Africa by a friend.  But it ended up being like when one plays golf for the very first time:  the one shot you hit that was great leads you to think, &quot;Wow, this could be a fun game!&quot; while every other time you swing a club, you really just want to toss the entire bag of clubs into the nearest water hazard and walk away, never to return.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact that Pinotage was, and remains, very popular within South Africa isn&#8217;t surprising, nor is the statement that the &#8220;panel participants surprisingly denied that the grape was controversial.&#8221;  To them, it isn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>But no one can deny that Pinotage is prone to developing isoamyl acetate, and smells like &#8212; not &#8220;burnt rubber&#8221; to me, but latex paint.  I have had any number of wines from Pinotage since 1969, when I entered the wine trade, and I can count the number of wine that *I* thought were very good on one hand:  three, one of which I thought was excellent.  </p>
<p>That one excellent wine was never sold in the US, but hand-carried back from South Africa by a friend.  But it ended up being like when one plays golf for the very first time:  the one shot you hit that was great leads you to think, &#8220;Wow, this could be a fun game!&#8221; while every other time you swing a club, you really just want to toss the entire bag of clubs into the nearest water hazard and walk away, never to return.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/10/04/pinotage-elephant/#comment-397083</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2012 15:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11441#comment-397083</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Nevin- You&#039;re right, wine is considered acidic and the pH is never at or above 7. What I assume Richard is referring to when he says &quot;high pH and high acid wine&quot; is pH &gt;=4.0 and 0.8 g/100ml acidity or higher(as tartaric). And it does happen a lot in warm (or hot) climates, heavily alkaline soils, and when vines are overcropped. I would know- it happens all the time in Texas where I make wine.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Nevin- You&#8217;re right, wine is considered acidic and the pH is never at or above 7. What I assume Richard is referring to when he says &#8220;high pH and high acid wine&#8221; is pH &gt;=4.0 and 0.8 g/100ml acidity or higher(as tartaric). And it does happen a lot in warm (or hot) climates, heavily alkaline soils, and when vines are overcropped. I would know- it happens all the time in Texas where I make wine.</p>
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		<title>By: Terroirist: A Daily Wine Blog &#187; Daily Wine News: Top Winemakers</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/10/04/pinotage-elephant/#comment-397074</link>
		<dc:creator>Terroirist: A Daily Wine Blog &#187; Daily Wine News: Top Winemakers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11441#comment-397074</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Vino tastes Pinotage in South [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Vino tastes Pinotage in South [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nevin</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/10/04/pinotage-elephant/#comment-396936</link>
		<dc:creator>Nevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2012 14:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11441#comment-396936</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry Richard but what you say is not true.  Wine is a mixture and it may have components that have a high pH and ones that have a low pH but they will react.  Not only that but the wine will have a pH that indicates it is acidic or basic, not both.  

Buffering does not separate chemicals of different pH rather it adjusts the pH of the overall mixture.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Richard but what you say is not true.  Wine is a mixture and it may have components that have a high pH and ones that have a low pH but they will react.  Not only that but the wine will have a pH that indicates it is acidic or basic, not both.  </p>
<p>Buffering does not separate chemicals of different pH rather it adjusts the pH of the overall mixture.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily H</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/10/04/pinotage-elephant/#comment-396925</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2012 12:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11441#comment-396925</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I second Anthony&#039;s comment. I have noticed the quality is Shirazes, blends, and varietal Cabernet bottlings too. I figured that is was a function of reduction and some sulfur compound, but the comment about pyrazines is illuminating. Will have to do more research.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I second Anthony&#8217;s comment. I have noticed the quality is Shirazes, blends, and varietal Cabernet bottlings too. I figured that is was a function of reduction and some sulfur compound, but the comment about pyrazines is illuminating. Will have to do more research.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter F May</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/10/04/pinotage-elephant/#comment-396924</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter F May</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2012 12:02:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11441#comment-396924</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A wine that no-one dislikes is a wine that tastes of not much, consider the recent mass-market success of bland Pinot Grigio. 

If a wine is characterful then it will have those that love it and therefore thus must also have those that don’t. That doesn’t make a variety controversial, we all have likes and dislikes. What is unusual is how vocal the dislikers are.

Regarding ‘burned rubber’, yes some South African Pinotages were badly affected by this, but at the same time so were many other South African reds. It is not a characteristic of the variety. The cause is unknown, though thought to be microbiological, and there is a team at the University of Stellenbosch investigating because of complaints raised about a whole slew of top South African red wines in 2007 and 2008 – though it’s worth pointing out that no Pinotages were among them.  

Seems to me this item focuses on the bad – it refer to someone who loathes the variety, not someone who loves it, it mention the negative comments of visiting MWs in 1977 but not the positive comments of visiting MWs in 1994.

Going to a wine seminar with an open mind and then wanting winemakers to focus on examples of poor winemaking and problems in the past and asking what they’re doing about it seems to invite the answer – ‘taste what’s we’re making now. That’s what we did, why dwell on the past?’

Yes, there are some unexciting Pinotages being made – name a single variety where that is not true, but there are also some real good Pinotages, something recognised last month by Decanter when they awarded the Trophy for Red Single Varietal over £10  to Bellingham &#039;The Bernard Series&#039;, Bush Vine Pinotage 2010 at Decanter World Wine Awards.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A wine that no-one dislikes is a wine that tastes of not much, consider the recent mass-market success of bland Pinot Grigio. </p>
<p>If a wine is characterful then it will have those that love it and therefore thus must also have those that don’t. That doesn’t make a variety controversial, we all have likes and dislikes. What is unusual is how vocal the dislikers are.</p>
<p>Regarding ‘burned rubber’, yes some South African Pinotages were badly affected by this, but at the same time so were many other South African reds. It is not a characteristic of the variety. The cause is unknown, though thought to be microbiological, and there is a team at the University of Stellenbosch investigating because of complaints raised about a whole slew of top South African red wines in 2007 and 2008 – though it’s worth pointing out that no Pinotages were among them.  </p>
<p>Seems to me this item focuses on the bad – it refer to someone who loathes the variety, not someone who loves it, it mention the negative comments of visiting MWs in 1977 but not the positive comments of visiting MWs in 1994.</p>
<p>Going to a wine seminar with an open mind and then wanting winemakers to focus on examples of poor winemaking and problems in the past and asking what they’re doing about it seems to invite the answer – ‘taste what’s we’re making now. That’s what we did, why dwell on the past?’</p>
<p>Yes, there are some unexciting Pinotages being made – name a single variety where that is not true, but there are also some real good Pinotages, something recognised last month by Decanter when they awarded the Trophy for Red Single Varietal over £10  to Bellingham &#8216;The Bernard Series&#8217;, Bush Vine Pinotage 2010 at Decanter World Wine Awards.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard G.</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/10/04/pinotage-elephant/#comment-396913</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2012 06:36:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11441#comment-396913</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just a comment on that of Nevin. What you said re pH and acidity is true in water, but it is entirely possible to have a high pH high acid wine. It&#039;s a common occurrence in warm climate wines. The reason is that wine contains stuff that works as a buffer - High potassium ion concentration in a wine will allow a high pH high acid wine to occur.

Re Pinotage... I saw a parody of &quot;wine glass manufacturer designs glass specifically tailored for Pinotage&quot;. When I opened the picture it was a wine glass with a hole in the bottom. I got it. Most that I have tried have been not particularly exciting and some have been quite bitter. If you have Carignan in your heritage you have to be on the back foot.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a comment on that of Nevin. What you said re pH and acidity is true in water, but it is entirely possible to have a high pH high acid wine. It&#8217;s a common occurrence in warm climate wines. The reason is that wine contains stuff that works as a buffer &#8211; High potassium ion concentration in a wine will allow a high pH high acid wine to occur.</p>
<p>Re Pinotage&#8230; I saw a parody of &#8220;wine glass manufacturer designs glass specifically tailored for Pinotage&#8221;. When I opened the picture it was a wine glass with a hole in the bottom. I got it. Most that I have tried have been not particularly exciting and some have been quite bitter. If you have Carignan in your heritage you have to be on the back foot.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/10/04/pinotage-elephant/#comment-396898</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2012 02:33:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11441#comment-396898</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In general, Pinotage stinks. We have not sold one in years, and have no real desire to do so.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In general, Pinotage stinks. We have not sold one in years, and have no real desire to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: boyce</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/10/04/pinotage-elephant/#comment-396870</link>
		<dc:creator>boyce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 17:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11441#comment-396870</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I co-organize a small blind tasting with wine consumers in Beijing each year and Pinotage outperforms all other red grape varieties. We gather a dozen casual wine consumers to taste ~40 wines that retail for less than rmb100 / USD15 and many of them are surprised to find -- when we remove the bottle covers -- that they gave high scores to a South African wine let alone one made with a grape most of them have never heard of.

Also, at a recent blind tasting in the Ningxia region, ~800 km west of Beijing, we tried 39 local wines, including quite a few made with a grape popular there, Cabernet Gernischt, which some say is Carmenere. One of the tasters, Liz Thach, called it an &quot;acquired taste, like a Pinotage&quot; and cautioned against it being used as signature grape and suggested it would be better for blending given that is has a spicy character.

Cheers, Boyce
Cheers, Boyce]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I co-organize a small blind tasting with wine consumers in Beijing each year and Pinotage outperforms all other red grape varieties. We gather a dozen casual wine consumers to taste ~40 wines that retail for less than rmb100 / USD15 and many of them are surprised to find &#8212; when we remove the bottle covers &#8212; that they gave high scores to a South African wine let alone one made with a grape most of them have never heard of.</p>
<p>Also, at a recent blind tasting in the Ningxia region, ~800 km west of Beijing, we tried 39 local wines, including quite a few made with a grape popular there, Cabernet Gernischt, which some say is Carmenere. One of the tasters, Liz Thach, called it an &#8220;acquired taste, like a Pinotage&#8221; and cautioned against it being used as signature grape and suggested it would be better for blending given that is has a spicy character.</p>
<p>Cheers, Boyce<br />
Cheers, Boyce</p>
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