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	<title>Comments on: South African Chenin blanc and wine twiticism</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.drvino.com/2012/07/18/south-african-chenin-blanc/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/07/18/south-african-chenin-blanc/</link>
	<description>wine talk that goes down easy</description>
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		<title>By: Chuck Hayward</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/07/18/south-african-chenin-blanc/#comment-392372</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck Hayward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 22:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11175#comment-392372</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From Bill Marsano above:

&quot;I like the idea of wine critics disagreeing publicly, but they should be forced to work out their differences in cage fighting.&quot;

Prefer a wine journo version of Celebrity Death Match myself...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From Bill Marsano above:</p>
<p>&#8220;I like the idea of wine critics disagreeing publicly, but they should be forced to work out their differences in cage fighting.&#8221;</p>
<p>Prefer a wine journo version of Celebrity Death Match myself&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Vino</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/07/18/south-african-chenin-blanc/#comment-392134</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Vino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 16:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11175#comment-392134</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Wino, 

Interesting that you bring up the people that Asimov tastes with. I&#039;m confused as to their role. Fabricant et al always get one quote in the tasting panel stories to reflect their views, but when Asimov kindly came to talk to my NYU class six years ago, he said that the scores and notes were solely his own and not a compilation of the comments or a vote of the group. Here&#039;s the link: 
http://www.drvino.com/2006/12/08/decanting-critic-eric-asimov/

Frank Prial really didn&#039;t like the tasting panel format, which was introduced toward the end of his time as wine critic. He told me once that the Times doesn&#039;t send multiple reviewers to a Broadway show, for example. He also said that the tasting panel was the creation of former executive editor Howell Raines in response to the WSJ&#039;s &quot;Dow Jones TKTK Index&quot; in which John and Dottie gave a short list of recommended wines. In a way, it&#039;s interesting that the Times tasting panel outlived  the Dow Jones Wine Index reviews. But that column does seem formulaic often times (lead with a few general grafs of intro; add &quot;Florence Fabricant and I were joined by...&quot;; have a few quick hits on the wines.) But it, no doubt, provides the actionable information that wine consumers seem to crave and when I check in with the col, the recs seem quite solid on the whole. 

I do think that an explanatory footnote in the online and mobile editions about how the wines were selected and procured would be helpful. Ditto, whether the star ratings and TNs are Asimov&#039;s alone or a compilation (and if they remain his alone, then I guess Prial&#039;s point about why the TImes invites the guests should be addressed).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Wino, </p>
<p>Interesting that you bring up the people that Asimov tastes with. I&#8217;m confused as to their role. Fabricant et al always get one quote in the tasting panel stories to reflect their views, but when Asimov kindly came to talk to my NYU class six years ago, he said that the scores and notes were solely his own and not a compilation of the comments or a vote of the group. Here&#8217;s the link:<br />
<a href="http://www.drvino.com/2006/12/08/decanting-critic-eric-asimov/" rel="nofollow" class="liinternal">http://www.drvino.com/2006/12/08/decanting-critic-eric-asimov/</a></p>
<p>Frank Prial really didn&#8217;t like the tasting panel format, which was introduced toward the end of his time as wine critic. He told me once that the Times doesn&#8217;t send multiple reviewers to a Broadway show, for example. He also said that the tasting panel was the creation of former executive editor Howell Raines in response to the WSJ&#8217;s &#8220;Dow Jones TKTK Index&#8221; in which John and Dottie gave a short list of recommended wines. In a way, it&#8217;s interesting that the Times tasting panel outlived  the Dow Jones Wine Index reviews. But that column does seem formulaic often times (lead with a few general grafs of intro; add &#8220;Florence Fabricant and I were joined by&#8230;&#8221;; have a few quick hits on the wines.) But it, no doubt, provides the actionable information that wine consumers seem to crave and when I check in with the col, the recs seem quite solid on the whole. </p>
<p>I do think that an explanatory footnote in the online and mobile editions about how the wines were selected and procured would be helpful. Ditto, whether the star ratings and TNs are Asimov&#8217;s alone or a compilation (and if they remain his alone, then I guess Prial&#8217;s point about why the TImes invites the guests should be addressed).</p>
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		<title>By: Pedro Dias</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/07/18/south-african-chenin-blanc/#comment-391833</link>
		<dc:creator>Pedro Dias</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2012 22:01:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11175#comment-391833</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Wino: *Of course* there&#039;s good Chenin outside Montlouis and Vouvray: there&#039;s Savennieres.

You can call it prejudice; I call it judgment, since I&#039;ve done an awful lot of drinking to get to it. The fact remains that I have found no Chenin Blanc from anywhere outside the Loire that comes close to ringing my bell. And South African Chenin Blanc has been especially consistently off the mark, for my palate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Wino: *Of course* there&#8217;s good Chenin outside Montlouis and Vouvray: there&#8217;s Savennieres.</p>
<p>You can call it prejudice; I call it judgment, since I&#8217;ve done an awful lot of drinking to get to it. The fact remains that I have found no Chenin Blanc from anywhere outside the Loire that comes close to ringing my bell. And South African Chenin Blanc has been especially consistently off the mark, for my palate.</p>
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		<title>By: Wino</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/07/18/south-african-chenin-blanc/#comment-391803</link>
		<dc:creator>Wino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2012 07:36:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11175#comment-391803</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One problem with Asimov&#039;s panels is that the guests are almost always hipster sommeliers or retailers who have extremely strong prejudices, especially against new world wines.  You can bet that the whole time they were talking about how great Huet and Foreau and Chidaine are and how there&#039;s no way there can be good Chenin outside Montlouis and Vouvray blahblahblah etc.  Look at their lists or shelves sometime and see for yourself how narrowminded and predictably hipster many of them are.  But Asimov likes to build up his own hipster wine resume so no surprise that he picks who he does to join in.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One problem with Asimov&#8217;s panels is that the guests are almost always hipster sommeliers or retailers who have extremely strong prejudices, especially against new world wines.  You can bet that the whole time they were talking about how great Huet and Foreau and Chidaine are and how there&#8217;s no way there can be good Chenin outside Montlouis and Vouvray blahblahblah etc.  Look at their lists or shelves sometime and see for yourself how narrowminded and predictably hipster many of them are.  But Asimov likes to build up his own hipster wine resume so no surprise that he picks who he does to join in.</p>
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		<title>By: gabe</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/07/18/south-african-chenin-blanc/#comment-391655</link>
		<dc:creator>gabe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:23:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11175#comment-391655</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m going with Asimov on this one.  While I am sure they make good wines in South Africa, I&#039;ve had bad luck finding them.  

I haven&#039;t tasted a ton of South African wines; but I haven&#039;t tasted a much Austrian Gruner or Mosel Riesling or New Zealand Sauv Blanc, and those usually deliver.

Maybe it&#039;s just a matter of availability.  Maybe it&#039;s bad luck.  Maybe the next SA Chennin I taste will change my mind.  But I&#039;m not surprised that somebody went to a SA Chenin tasting and didn&#039;t find anything they liked]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m going with Asimov on this one.  While I am sure they make good wines in South Africa, I&#8217;ve had bad luck finding them.  </p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t tasted a ton of South African wines; but I haven&#8217;t tasted a much Austrian Gruner or Mosel Riesling or New Zealand Sauv Blanc, and those usually deliver.</p>
<p>Maybe it&#8217;s just a matter of availability.  Maybe it&#8217;s bad luck.  Maybe the next SA Chennin I taste will change my mind.  But I&#8217;m not surprised that somebody went to a SA Chenin tasting and didn&#8217;t find anything they liked</p>
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		<title>By: Tai-Ran Niew</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/07/18/south-african-chenin-blanc/#comment-391650</link>
		<dc:creator>Tai-Ran Niew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2012 07:36:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11175#comment-391650</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@DaveErickson has got it spot on!!

The reason why Asimov is worth reading, is because he actually thinks.  He understands the limitation of what he does and openly discusses it.  

The facts were he tasted 20 wines and he did not like a lot of them.  The facts were they are supposed to be the top producers.  In any wine region, that result would have been strange ... something is wrong.  He leaves the topic open for discussion.  End off.  Why is that so difficult to accept?

If he is allowed to dislike what he does not like, surely he should be allowed to air his views without being attacked?

Interestingly, because of his article, I am even MORE inclined to taste SA Chenin Blancs, to see if there is something wrong.  Otherwise, I would have just assumed they were perfectly fine and continued to taste Vouvrays ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@DaveErickson has got it spot on!!</p>
<p>The reason why Asimov is worth reading, is because he actually thinks.  He understands the limitation of what he does and openly discusses it.  </p>
<p>The facts were he tasted 20 wines and he did not like a lot of them.  The facts were they are supposed to be the top producers.  In any wine region, that result would have been strange &#8230; something is wrong.  He leaves the topic open for discussion.  End off.  Why is that so difficult to accept?</p>
<p>If he is allowed to dislike what he does not like, surely he should be allowed to air his views without being attacked?</p>
<p>Interestingly, because of his article, I am even MORE inclined to taste SA Chenin Blancs, to see if there is something wrong.  Otherwise, I would have just assumed they were perfectly fine and continued to taste Vouvrays &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: What to drink: 2011 Dry Creek Chenin Blanc &#124; What&#039;s in the bottle?</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/07/18/south-african-chenin-blanc/#comment-391612</link>
		<dc:creator>What to drink: 2011 Dry Creek Chenin Blanc &#124; What&#039;s in the bottle?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2012 16:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11175#comment-391612</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Asimov vs. Molesworth: the Thrilla in Vanilla [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Asimov vs. Molesworth: the Thrilla in Vanilla [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dave Erickson</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/07/18/south-african-chenin-blanc/#comment-391599</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Erickson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11175#comment-391599</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From Asimov&#039;s column:

&quot;Has my taste changed? Or have the wines? Or was this an anomalous tasting that warrants another look before too long?&quot;

...so what&#039;s everybody&#039;s problem? He&#039;s not exactly claiming to be authoritative.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From Asimov&#8217;s column:</p>
<p>&#8220;Has my taste changed? Or have the wines? Or was this an anomalous tasting that warrants another look before too long?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;so what&#8217;s everybody&#8217;s problem? He&#8217;s not exactly claiming to be authoritative.</p>
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		<title>By: GREG DE BRUYN CWM</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/07/18/south-african-chenin-blanc/#comment-391590</link>
		<dc:creator>GREG DE BRUYN CWM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2012 14:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11175#comment-391590</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not sure what&#039;s going on here. Maybe a dysfunctional panel. We get them
sometimes, when a prevailing voice skews the tasting for everybody. I think
I&#039;ve tasted all the wines he lists, but there is no way on earth I would put
MAN or La Capra on the same planet as the Raats or Game Reserve, although he
does seem well-disposed towards the Swartland Revolutionaries. As a member of the Platter Wine Guide panel, I taste these
wines regularly and I really can&#039;t support his theories about a decline in
quality. If he liked them 5 years ago and he doesn&#039;t now, I think the
problem is with his palate. There may well be cropping and manipulation
issues with the lower labels, but definitely not with the elite producers he&#039;s listed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure what&#8217;s going on here. Maybe a dysfunctional panel. We get them<br />
sometimes, when a prevailing voice skews the tasting for everybody. I think<br />
I&#8217;ve tasted all the wines he lists, but there is no way on earth I would put<br />
MAN or La Capra on the same planet as the Raats or Game Reserve, although he<br />
does seem well-disposed towards the Swartland Revolutionaries. As a member of the Platter Wine Guide panel, I taste these<br />
wines regularly and I really can&#8217;t support his theories about a decline in<br />
quality. If he liked them 5 years ago and he doesn&#8217;t now, I think the<br />
problem is with his palate. There may well be cropping and manipulation<br />
issues with the lower labels, but definitely not with the elite producers he&#8217;s listed.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Goldberg</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/07/18/south-african-chenin-blanc/#comment-391582</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Goldberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2012 12:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11175#comment-391582</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As an admirer of multiple vintages of Forrester&#039;s FMC, Asimov&#039;s take was more annoying than anything. He&#039;s free to personally dislike any given style, but one expects more from critics in major publications than to dismiss a serious wine with a glib string of tired adjectives. This is a label that makes an intentionally strong stylistic statement -- one that Molesworth nailed in his description.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an admirer of multiple vintages of Forrester&#8217;s FMC, Asimov&#8217;s take was more annoying than anything. He&#8217;s free to personally dislike any given style, but one expects more from critics in major publications than to dismiss a serious wine with a glib string of tired adjectives. This is a label that makes an intentionally strong stylistic statement &#8212; one that Molesworth nailed in his description.</p>
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		<title>By: Terroirist: A Daily Wine Blog &#187; Daily Wine News: Wine Blog Awards</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/07/18/south-african-chenin-blanc/#comment-391580</link>
		<dc:creator>Terroirist: A Daily Wine Blog &#187; Daily Wine News: Wine Blog Awards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2012 12:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11175#comment-391580</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Blake Gray and Dr. Vino chime in on the recent Twitter showdown between New York Times wine critic Eric Asimov and Wine [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Blake Gray and Dr. Vino chime in on the recent Twitter showdown between New York Times wine critic Eric Asimov and Wine [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Julien</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/07/18/south-african-chenin-blanc/#comment-391561</link>
		<dc:creator>Julien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2012 04:30:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11175#comment-391561</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is therefore important that the consumers understand that there isn&#039;t only one critic who they should listen to, but many wine professionals with different points of view. If they want to rely on these people to buy wines, they should know which one&#039;s taste is more likely to suit him/herself. For instance, there are often important ratings differences between american tasters (Wine Spec, Wine Advocate...) and European counterparts (Decanter, RVF, Jancis Robinson...).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is therefore important that the consumers understand that there isn&#8217;t only one critic who they should listen to, but many wine professionals with different points of view. If they want to rely on these people to buy wines, they should know which one&#8217;s taste is more likely to suit him/herself. For instance, there are often important ratings differences between american tasters (Wine Spec, Wine Advocate&#8230;) and European counterparts (Decanter, RVF, Jancis Robinson&#8230;).</p>
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		<title>By: Wino</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/07/18/south-african-chenin-blanc/#comment-391557</link>
		<dc:creator>Wino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2012 03:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11175#comment-391557</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Molesworth is right.  The Times does mostly lame tastings that are as far from comprehensive as can be imagined.  Then Asimove makes sweeping generalizations.  Weak, very weak indeed.  And what is Florence Fabricant doing on the panel?  Her wine knowledge is, well, um...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Molesworth is right.  The Times does mostly lame tastings that are as far from comprehensive as can be imagined.  Then Asimove makes sweeping generalizations.  Weak, very weak indeed.  And what is Florence Fabricant doing on the panel?  Her wine knowledge is, well, um&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: RobinC</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/07/18/south-african-chenin-blanc/#comment-391556</link>
		<dc:creator>RobinC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2012 02:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11175#comment-391556</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think that Eric&#039;s was an anomalous tasting that warrants another look before too long.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that Eric&#8217;s was an anomalous tasting that warrants another look before too long.</p>
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		<title>By: bill marsano</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2012/07/18/south-african-chenin-blanc/#comment-391539</link>
		<dc:creator>bill marsano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2012 18:51:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=11175#comment-391539</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;A 20-wine sample every 5 years&quot;--It&#039;s awfully hard to argue w/Molesworth on this point. I like the idea of wine critics disagreeing publicly, but they should be forced to work out their differences in cage fighting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A 20-wine sample every 5 years&#8221;&#8211;It&#8217;s awfully hard to argue w/Molesworth on this point. I like the idea of wine critics disagreeing publicly, but they should be forced to work out their differences in cage fighting.</p>
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