Comments on: How much wine outside the winery is cooked? #heatwave

By: Ben

Ben — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 19:12:35 +0000

In NYC many wines are delivered in refeer trucks, but of course if they are cooked prior to getting to the warehouse, it doesn’t matter anyway. Ponsot in Burgundy starting putting temperature sensors on bottles several years ago, that supposedly change color if the wine has been exposed to heat, but many are skeptical as to how accurate these are. It would certainly be fantastic if a unified system could be developed that would accurately measure heat etc…

By: Tom Riley

Tom Riley — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 19:22:15 +0000

Mark, I wrote two pieces a year ago on the very same topic, but didn’t do any real investigation or discussion of the shipping part of the wine’s journey, just what happens restaurants. As many have said, it’s simply astonishing how an industry with such a fragile product can allow this mishandling by its biggest transporters. Bizarre.

By: Daniel

Daniel — Tue, 09 Aug 2011 23:03:41 +0000

Oeno

Winebow uses reefer trucks. I am not certain of their warehousing. I can confirm that Empire and Southern have very little temp control warehousing.

Michael

I can only speak to my store, but as Dr. Vino can confirm, the majority of our wine is stored at 56 degrees. I say majority because we also have passive storage in our basement. That temp is around 59 degrees.

The store stays at 66 degrees all round.

We are very serious about the problems of cooked wines, and take this issue very seriously.

By: oenophoole

oenophoole — Tue, 09 Aug 2011 22:57:58 +0000

Daniel, which wholesaler is the worst offender in regard to the proper storage of wine? Is it Southern, Empire or Winebow?

By: Robert Callahan

Robert Callahan — Tue, 09 Aug 2011 07:19:38 +0000

As someone mentions already, Dijon is not four hours away from “Burgundy”. It is in Burgundy, albeit some distance from most vineyards. Trucks in France drive slowly by law, mais quand même, that’s a long time. Wine going to export in barrel form suggest this wine, if it is wine and not empty barrels, and if it is going to export, has a major stop to make at a negociant for blending into eventual plonque. If it is indeed going to Dijon, which is not a hotbed of fine wine production, even if it does serve as a regional shipping hub. We note many ifs here.

Worse, the photo is not reminiscent of most of Burgundy. It could be in the Chalonnaise maybe, in the southern reaches of the region. Which is a drive from Dijon, but no four hours, even with grandpa at the wheel.

Anyway, heat damage is a real issue for the wine trade. One should note it is much less an issue than many wine geeks think. All wines get and generally shrug off much more exposure to heat in the supply chain than would provoke shrieking and hair raising in the typical “Adventures on the Wine Route” reader. People get very exercised over small insults. Wine, even artisanal, live wine, is fairly resilient.

That said, reputations have been wrecked by poor judgment and practice in shipping and storage. Bottles that have leaked and exploded are only the obvious signs. Other wines are D.O.A. with little visible evidence beyond a very subtle color shift. In the main this is something the trade needs to handle. While we have seen much improvement in the last 25 years, plenty of work remains to be done.

By: John Glas

John Glas — Sun, 07 Aug 2011 16:21:53 +0000

I am amazed that wine clubs of the month ship year round. Of course the consumers who buy into these programs are not going to usually notice the flaws of cooked wines and if they do I hope they return them.

I for one just return every bad bottle to the wine shop. If enough people follow this model something will start changing especially if the wine is expensive. I personally don’t buy from any shop that does not accept returns. I believe in some states all sales are final which is a joke.

John Glas
Wineglas

By: Michael

Michael — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 14:33:42 +0000

Marty, and other retailers, thanks for perspectives on deliveries from distributors, etc. But I was also wondering about how the wine is stored at the store. Are back storerooms generally climate controlled? Is the ac left on over the weekend if the store is closed? What is the heat set at over the weekend in the winter? The high temperature threshold in Louise’s post is 86 degrees for 18 hours, warm to be sure, but not so hot that I can’t imagine some stores with storerooms at or above that temperature for extended periods of time.

By: marty

marty — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 14:03:48 +0000

Thank you, David, for the thoughtful response and for the gentle correction on the TCA/Brettanomyces reference. Daniel encourages retailers, like us, to be more proactive about setting terms of shipments from wholesalers. This discussion has picqued our resolve, though as a small retailer, we do not have the muscle with wholesalers that Daniel is able to exert. There are exigencies such as cash flow and cellar constraints that make season-long moratoriums on deliveries untenable for us. Though we have checked the warehouse conditions of some of our wholesalers, we have passively assumed that trucks are not loaded until the day of delivery. We appreciate the heads up about that, and for the push to be more proactive. Louise has provided great data that compel us to take greater responsibility for the care of our wines. Thank you!

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Mon, 25 Jul 2011 19:49:50 +0000

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By: Shawn Denkler

Shawn Denkler — Mon, 25 Jul 2011 03:09:04 +0000

I do not think my comments are much of a surprise to people in the trade. What is surprising is that more people do not complain when they see leaky bottles and pushed corks in wine shops. That is an obvious problem even for novices.

By: Daniel Posner

Daniel Posner — Mon, 25 Jul 2011 02:31:28 +0000

Shawn

This is not too much of a surprise.

Here is the other great part about wholesalers like Southern, and Empire (Charmer’s NY wholesaler)…they load their trucks the night before…Monday’s trucks get loaded on Friday night.

So, this past Friday if you got a delivery from Southern (EMpire was on shutdown), the truck was loaded in 95 degree weather the night before (overnight lows were about 86), and then the trucks started their routes at about 8 am, when it was already 90 degrees. By 1 pm, it was about 102 in the City. You think that any wine was cooked this past Friday in NY?

By: Shawn Denkler

Shawn Denkler — Sun, 24 Jul 2011 23:07:39 +0000

I owned a wine shop specializing in rare wine in Napa for fourteen years. Many times I had to return cases of first growth Bordeaux that had corks pushing from the heat. Year after year I had to return these heat damaged wines. Since it was mainly Bordeaux that I had to return, I presume it was from shipping in non refrigerated containers. But once I visited a friend working in a wine shop in Pensacola, Florida. The shop was filled with bottles leaking and pushing corks. He then took me on a trip to the big warehouse of Southern Wine & Spirits. He told me he had been inside the warehouse and it had no air conditioning. We drove around it and sure enough, there were no air conditioning units for the building. The big wholesale companies do not care at all about taking care of wine.

By: Bill Klapp

Bill Klapp — Sun, 24 Jul 2011 19:04:25 +0000

Good question. How much wine INSIDE the wineries are occasionally cooked? Zero is certainly not the right answer…

By: Teresa McKinney

Teresa McKinney — Sun, 24 Jul 2011 16:22:46 +0000

Nice article. As an importer, it’s obviously extremely important to me to receive wine in good condition. I have some winemakers who are very aware of the potential short term heat damage opportunities during the shipping process. I use reputable shippers and make clear my desire for careful temperature control during the entire trip. Even so, because I’m located in south Texas, I have made the decision not to receive shipments during the hottest months due to the risk. Interestingly enough, I have a winemaker annoyed with me because of this decision. Guess he doesn’t understand what 105F degrees feels like!