Comments on: Rocks for shocks: geologists don’t “debunk” terroir; minerality questioned http://www.drvino.com/2009/10/28/geologists-terroir-minerality-maltman-greg-jones/ wine talk that goes down easy Thu, 09 Feb 2012 23:11:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: PEDRO PARRA http://www.drvino.com/2009/10/28/geologists-terroir-minerality-maltman-greg-jones/#comment-295541 PEDRO PARRA Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:32:04 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=5173#comment-295541 Hello, since 2001 i do work doing terroir observations and consoulting in Chile and Argentina. I have a Ph.D in Paris at my thesis was about the micro zoning for terroir. You can follow my tweets as pitterroir and discussion about minerality are commun. For me is very complicate to get minerality in hot climates. Sugar erase minerality, and in this cases tecnical maturity is so brutal thats makes very rare to get this minerality notes (with 16 alcohol.....). I see that every year in Chile and Argentina, and I think its similar in California. Clouds help minerality. The clasical example in Burgundy for Chardonnys....Mersault, some are, some aren't, depending the year. St Aubin, only claciare rock, always minerals, etc....Normaly scientist look in the wrong places... Regards Pedro Hello,
since 2001 i do work doing terroir observations and consoulting in Chile and Argentina. I have a Ph.D in Paris at my thesis was about the micro zoning for terroir.
You can follow my tweets as pitterroir and discussion about minerality are commun.
For me is very complicate to get minerality in hot climates. Sugar erase minerality, and in this cases tecnical maturity is so brutal thats makes very rare to get this minerality notes (with 16 alcohol…..). I see that every year in Chile and Argentina, and I think its similar in California. Clouds help minerality.
The clasical example in Burgundy for Chardonnys….Mersault, some are, some aren’t, depending the year. St Aubin, only claciare rock, always minerals, etc….Normaly scientist look in the wrong places…

Regards

Pedro

]]> By: Earth, wind and fire: tasting the terroir, Sonoma, 2008 | Dr Vino's wine blog http://www.drvino.com/2009/10/28/geologists-terroir-minerality-maltman-greg-jones/#comment-295483 Earth, wind and fire: tasting the terroir, Sonoma, 2008 | Dr Vino's wine blog Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:07:55 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=5173#comment-295483 [...] previously discussed geologists who debunked “minerality” as coming from the soil. But this smokiness in the glass appears to have come from the fires! [...] [...] previously discussed geologists who debunked “minerality” as coming from the soil. But this smokiness in the glass appears to have come from the fires! [...]

]]> By: Barney Treadway http://www.drvino.com/2009/10/28/geologists-terroir-minerality-maltman-greg-jones/#comment-289329 Barney Treadway Wed, 04 Nov 2009 02:15:39 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=5173#comment-289329 Rant #2 would have to deal with the "news" that many wine grapes aren't grown on optimal soil. Just imagine how good the wine would be if we could "fix" Champagne, Burgundy, the Loire, Alsace, and Bordeaux? Their wine might be as good as the lovely plonk from the Central Valley. Rant #2 would have to deal with the “news” that many wine grapes aren’t grown on optimal soil. Just imagine how good the wine would be if we could “fix” Champagne, Burgundy, the Loire, Alsace, and Bordeaux? Their wine might be as good as the lovely plonk from the Central Valley.

]]> By: Barney Treadway http://www.drvino.com/2009/10/28/geologists-terroir-minerality-maltman-greg-jones/#comment-289325 Barney Treadway Wed, 04 Nov 2009 02:05:48 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=5173#comment-289325 Maybe in the Columbia Valley where temperatures cook the fruit the minerality can't be found. What a load of junk, the typical, myopic "I can't see it so it isn't there" science. Where do the molecules that make up a grape (and stem and leaf) come from? Some kind of magic, spontaneous, organic matter generator?? If this guy is a scientist and believes that H20 and sunlight alone create the thousands of compounds found in a glass of wine, he must have gotten his degree from one of these places that flood my inbox each day. Maybe in the Columbia Valley where temperatures cook the fruit the minerality can’t be found. What a load of junk, the typical, myopic “I can’t see it so it isn’t there” science. Where do the molecules that make up a grape (and stem and leaf) come from? Some kind of magic, spontaneous, organic matter generator?? If this guy is a scientist and believes that H20 and sunlight alone create the thousands of compounds found in a glass of wine, he must have gotten his degree from one of these places that flood my inbox each day.

]]> By: Geology Links for November 1st, 2009 | The Geology News Blog http://www.drvino.com/2009/10/28/geologists-terroir-minerality-maltman-greg-jones/#comment-288465 Geology Links for November 1st, 2009 | The Geology News Blog Sun, 01 Nov 2009 23:05:29 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=5173#comment-288465 [...] Rocks for shocks: geologists don’t “debunk” terroir; minerality questioned | Dr Vi... [...] [...] Rocks for shocks: geologists don’t “debunk” terroir; minerality questioned | Dr Vi… [...]

]]> By: Dylan http://www.drvino.com/2009/10/28/geologists-terroir-minerality-maltman-greg-jones/#comment-288383 Dylan Sun, 01 Nov 2009 15:55:44 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=5173#comment-288383 "The take home for me confirmed what I truly believe … that geology, landscape, and soil are important factors that mediate the interaction between climate and the vine, especially soil water supply and nutrition." One thing left out is the people. Having no clue about much of anything when I first walked onto the vineyard, I always asked a lot of questions. I remember when I asked our winemaker about the concept of "terroir" he thought that, beyond conventional elements of soil and landscape, a lot of it has to do with the people managing the land at that time. As it turned out, wine growing and making is enology as much as an exercise in spirituality for him. “The take home for me confirmed what I truly believe … that geology, landscape, and soil are important factors that mediate the interaction between climate and the vine, especially soil water supply and nutrition.” One thing left out is the people. Having no clue about much of anything when I first walked onto the vineyard, I always asked a lot of questions. I remember when I asked our winemaker about the concept of “terroir” he thought that, beyond conventional elements of soil and landscape, a lot of it has to do with the people managing the land at that time. As it turned out, wine growing and making is enology as much as an exercise in spirituality for him.

]]> By: Sergio http://www.drvino.com/2009/10/28/geologists-terroir-minerality-maltman-greg-jones/#comment-287558 Sergio Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:35:47 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=5173#comment-287558 About the Eucalyptus, I've seen it several times: when those surrounding trees are cut down the mintyness on the wine goes away the next vintage. And about Phyloxera, Chile is another example of a place where most of the vineyards are "own rooted" due to the absence of the plague. About the Eucalyptus, I’ve seen it several times: when those surrounding trees are cut down the mintyness on the wine goes away the next vintage.
And about Phyloxera, Chile is another example of a place where most of the vineyards are “own rooted” due to the absence of the plague.

]]> By: Dr. Vino http://www.drvino.com/2009/10/28/geologists-terroir-minerality-maltman-greg-jones/#comment-287238 Dr. Vino Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:13:44 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=5173#comment-287238 Maybe I should have entitled this post: "Gary, Conan wants his tongue back!" <img src="http://www.drvino.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/conan-gary-v-eat-dirt.jpg" alt="conan-gary-v-eat-dirt" title="conan-gary-v-eat-dirt" width="147" height="215" class="alignnone size-full wp-image-5192" /> Maybe I should have entitled this post: “Gary, Conan wants his tongue back!”

conan-gary-v-eat-dirt

]]> By: Jim Wilkerson http://www.drvino.com/2009/10/28/geologists-terroir-minerality-maltman-greg-jones/#comment-287226 Jim Wilkerson Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:45:16 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=5173#comment-287226 Patrick/Erol/Steven - There does appear to be some science behind the connection between eucalyptus trees growing near a vineyard and mint flavor in the finished wine. http://www.etslabs.com/display.aspx?catid=48,50,68&pageid=102 This is from the website of ETS Laboratories, not a scientific journal. Nevertheless it supports Steven's explanation. Incidentally, I came across this while researching a recent post for my blog on the Cline Small Berry Mourvedre (Contra Costa County) - a wine that exhibits that minty note vintage after vintage due to nearby eucalyptus. Patrick/Erol/Steven –

There does appear to be some science behind the connection between eucalyptus trees growing near a vineyard and mint flavor in the finished wine.

http://www.etslabs.com/display.aspx?catid=48,50,68&pageid=102

This is from the website of ETS Laboratories, not a scientific journal. Nevertheless it supports Steven’s explanation.

Incidentally, I came across this while researching a recent post for my blog on the Cline Small Berry Mourvedre (Contra Costa County) – a wine that exhibits that minty note vintage after vintage due to nearby eucalyptus.

]]> By: mineralischer Wein – alles Humbug? » Wein, Mineralien, Zusammenhang, Geologen, Vorstellung, Mineralität » Weintipps von Michael Liebert http://www.drvino.com/2009/10/28/geologists-terroir-minerality-maltman-greg-jones/#comment-287217 mineralischer Wein – alles Humbug? » Wein, Mineralien, Zusammenhang, Geologen, Vorstellung, Mineralität » Weintipps von Michael Liebert Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:34:12 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=5173#comment-287217 [...] http://www.drvino.com/2009/10/28/geologists-terroir-minerality-maltman-greg-jones/ [...] [...] http://www.drvino.com/2009/10/28/geologists-terroir-minerality-maltman-greg-jones/ [...]

]]> By: Patrick B http://www.drvino.com/2009/10/28/geologists-terroir-minerality-maltman-greg-jones/#comment-287133 Patrick B Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:18:18 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=5173#comment-287133 Steve- that's what I meant, there's no link (air, soil or otherwise). But to keep an open mind, I have yet to see a study that substantial oil molecules can travel a distance and accumulate enough in grape skins to produce minty wines. I am not a chemist by trade, but isn't it the minty flavors in wine comes from the same chemical compounds (pyrazine) that also produces peppery flavors. Steve- that’s what I meant, there’s no link (air, soil or otherwise). But to keep an open mind, I have yet to see a study that substantial oil molecules can travel a distance and accumulate enough in grape skins to produce minty wines. I am not a chemist by trade, but isn’t it the minty flavors in wine comes from the same chemical compounds (pyrazine) that also produces peppery flavors.

]]> By: Steven Mirassou http://www.drvino.com/2009/10/28/geologists-terroir-minerality-maltman-greg-jones/#comment-287127 Steven Mirassou Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:49:23 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=5173#comment-287127 Patrick/Erol: Sorry, you're wrong on the Eucalyptus contribution. It has nothing to do with Eucalyptus trees IN the ground, and everything to do with the fact that they are used as wind breaks. Down-wind vineyards get the oil from the leaves splashed on to the grapes. Red wines are made with the skins...material on the skins is directly contributed to the wine (this is from where some of the yeast for "natural" fermentations comes). Patrick/Erol:

Sorry, you’re wrong on the Eucalyptus contribution. It has nothing to do with Eucalyptus trees IN the ground, and everything to do with the fact that they are used as wind breaks. Down-wind vineyards get the oil from the leaves splashed on to the grapes. Red wines are made with the skins…material on the skins is directly contributed to the wine (this is from where some of the yeast for “natural” fermentations comes).

]]> By: Steve Raye http://www.drvino.com/2009/10/28/geologists-terroir-minerality-maltman-greg-jones/#comment-287126 Steve Raye Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:41:45 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=5173#comment-287126 The photo looks like it was shot in Santorini with their distinctive planting style of training the vines into baskets. The photo looks like it was shot in Santorini with their distinctive planting style of training the vines into baskets.

]]> By: Erol Senel http://www.drvino.com/2009/10/28/geologists-terroir-minerality-maltman-greg-jones/#comment-287123 Erol Senel Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:22:58 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=5173#comment-287123 Patrick, I agree completely. "This is no different than gratuitous wine marketers linking eucalyptus trees around a vineyard with the minty flavors in their wine." I think you can throw into that Top Chef contestants pairing hazelnuts in their food with a Pinot just because they know that the vineyard has hazelnut trees and thinks that will have a corralation! Fun times. Interesting blog topic today. I needed it. On a more somber note, I took a break from writing about wine for the week. This is do to the fact that we have all lost a large amount of heroes over in Afghanistan, including my collegiate teammate Capt Kyle Van De Giesen. I wrote a short piece about how he impacted me and just want to share what a unique kind of person he was. Patrick,

I agree completely. “This is no different than gratuitous wine marketers linking eucalyptus trees around a vineyard with the minty flavors in their wine.” I think you can throw into that Top Chef contestants pairing hazelnuts in their food with a Pinot just because they know that the vineyard has hazelnut trees and thinks that will have a corralation!

Fun times. Interesting blog topic today. I needed it.

On a more somber note, I took a break from writing about wine for the week. This is do to the fact that we have all lost a large amount of heroes over in Afghanistan, including my collegiate teammate Capt Kyle Van De Giesen. I wrote a short piece about how he impacted me and just want to share what a unique kind of person he was.

]]> By: Dr. Vino http://www.drvino.com/2009/10/28/geologists-terroir-minerality-maltman-greg-jones/#comment-287122 Dr. Vino Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:21:19 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=5173#comment-287122 Damien - Yes, I was trying to pick a place that has a distinctive terroir and Lanzarote with its volcanic soil, low-yielding bush vines, wind and sun came to mind. FYI we did have this as <a href="http://www.drvino.com/2008/01/25/where-in-the-wine-world-are-we-low-yield-edition/" rel="nofollow">a "mystery" photo some time ago</a>. You can see the whole series of mystery places here: http://www.drvino.com/category/photo-captions/ Submit one for our guessing since it has been a while! Damien –

Yes, I was trying to pick a place that has a distinctive terroir and Lanzarote with its volcanic soil, low-yielding bush vines, wind and sun came to mind.

FYI we did have this as a “mystery” photo some time ago. You can see the whole series of mystery places here:
http://www.drvino.com/category/photo-captions/

Submit one for our guessing since it has been a while!

]]>