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	<title>Comments on: Medallurgy: wine competition gold is as good as chance</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.drvino.com/2009/09/01/wine-competition-gold-medals-odds-good-chance/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.drvino.com/2009/09/01/wine-competition-gold-medals-odds-good-chance/</link>
	<description>wine talk that goes down easy</description>
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		<title>By: Doug Goodwillie</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2009/09/01/wine-competition-gold-medals-odds-good-chance/#comment-292656</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Goodwillie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=4690#comment-292656</guid>
		<description>As a pretty heavy consumer of wine what really surprises me here is that I have never paid any attention to the results of any of these competitions and very rarely even see them referenced. 

That said, I am not at all surprised at the results of this research and the conclusions drawn.

If I&#039;m interested (and I often am) in the consensus of a committee of tasters I&#039;ll visit CT. Beyond that I find that WA, IWA &amp; BH are reliable sources once you are familiar with the preferences and idiosyncracies of the various individual critics providing the TN and the resultant ratings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a pretty heavy consumer of wine what really surprises me here is that I have never paid any attention to the results of any of these competitions and very rarely even see them referenced. </p>
<p>That said, I am not at all surprised at the results of this research and the conclusions drawn.</p>
<p>If I&#8217;m interested (and I often am) in the consensus of a committee of tasters I&#8217;ll visit CT. Beyond that I find that WA, IWA &amp; BH are reliable sources once you are familiar with the preferences and idiosyncracies of the various individual critics providing the TN and the resultant ratings.</p>
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		<title>By: WSJ: wine-rating system is badly flawed &#124; Dr Vino&#39;s wine blog</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2009/09/01/wine-competition-gold-medals-odds-good-chance/#comment-292648</link>
		<dc:creator>WSJ: wine-rating system is badly flawed &#124; Dr Vino&#39;s wine blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=4690#comment-292648</guid>
		<description>[...] Hodgson&#8217;s research on the randomness of gold medals in wine competitions. In case you missed our discussion here and many others on them there internets, you can check out the WSJ article for a recap. The story [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Hodgson&#8217;s research on the randomness of gold medals in wine competitions. In case you missed our discussion here and many others on them there internets, you can check out the WSJ article for a recap. The story [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Big oaky monsters, imports, burcak, medals &#8211; sipped and spit &#124; Dr Vino's wine blog</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2009/09/01/wine-competition-gold-medals-odds-good-chance/#comment-276811</link>
		<dc:creator>Big oaky monsters, imports, burcak, medals &#8211; sipped and spit &#124; Dr Vino's wine blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:05:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=4690#comment-276811</guid>
		<description>[...] Hodgson! A Fresno State student wine wins &#8220;record&#8221; 49 medals. [Collegian]   Permalink &#124; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Hodgson! A Fresno State student wine wins &#8220;record&#8221; 49 medals. [Collegian]   Permalink | [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stevie</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2009/09/01/wine-competition-gold-medals-odds-good-chance/#comment-274573</link>
		<dc:creator>Stevie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:25:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=4690#comment-274573</guid>
		<description>I think that this article about wine competitions is marvelous and long overdue.  Like I&#039;ve written on my blog, http://weirdcombinations.com/2009/09/taste-in-wine-is-subjective/ ,taste in wine has always been a subjective thing.  It&#039;s akin to comparing a Picasso to a Michaelangelo.  Both works can be great for completely different reasons yet might not appeal to all of us equally.  There are no universal wines that everyone would think great!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that this article about wine competitions is marvelous and long overdue.  Like I&#8217;ve written on my blog, <a href="http://weirdcombinations.com/2009/09/taste-in-wine-is-subjective/" rel="nofollow" class="liexternal">http://weirdcombinations.com/2009/09/taste-in-wine-is-subjective/</a> ,taste in wine has always been a subjective thing.  It&#8217;s akin to comparing a Picasso to a Michaelangelo.  Both works can be great for completely different reasons yet might not appeal to all of us equally.  There are no universal wines that everyone would think great!</p>
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		<title>By: Claude Robbins</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2009/09/01/wine-competition-gold-medals-odds-good-chance/#comment-273186</link>
		<dc:creator>Claude Robbins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 22:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=4690#comment-273186</guid>
		<description>This is one of the greatest challenges we face at the International Wine Guild, where we certify wine judges. To properly train judges to maintain consistency over time (and in particular during one long judging even) is a formidable challenge. But it is possible, and some judges are really quite skilled. Unfortunately, 95% of the wine judges at most competitions aren&#039;t properly trained, and therein lies a sizable margin for error.

One note here - we suffer from some cultural shortcomings in the United States that give our citizens less opportunity for proper training than you sometimes grow-up with in Europe. I see a trend towards education and consistency that will build over time, as more and more people in the US engage wine actively and get proper training in dealing with the rigors of judging many wines in one sitting.

For now though, certainly taking judging medals with a grain of salt is wise (unless you won the medal and it will help you sell your wine better of course!).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is one of the greatest challenges we face at the International Wine Guild, where we certify wine judges. To properly train judges to maintain consistency over time (and in particular during one long judging even) is a formidable challenge. But it is possible, and some judges are really quite skilled. Unfortunately, 95% of the wine judges at most competitions aren&#8217;t properly trained, and therein lies a sizable margin for error.</p>
<p>One note here &#8211; we suffer from some cultural shortcomings in the United States that give our citizens less opportunity for proper training than you sometimes grow-up with in Europe. I see a trend towards education and consistency that will build over time, as more and more people in the US engage wine actively and get proper training in dealing with the rigors of judging many wines in one sitting.</p>
<p>For now though, certainly taking judging medals with a grain of salt is wise (unless you won the medal and it will help you sell your wine better of course!).</p>
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		<title>By: Tynan Szvetecz</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2009/09/01/wine-competition-gold-medals-odds-good-chance/#comment-273173</link>
		<dc:creator>Tynan Szvetecz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 21:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=4690#comment-273173</guid>
		<description>I wonder if it&#039;s worth asking: what do wine judging competitions have in common with more reputable, even &quot;legitimate&quot; forms of wine review, such as those employed by magazines like Spectator, the Advocate, or Decanter. 

Do they not suffer from the same challenges - &quot;where and when a wine is tasted in the line-up ( fatigue, tannin build-up on the palate in huge classes) and the personal style preferences of judges on specific panels.&quot;

And does it therefore all just come down to a vehicle for marketing - getting your foot in the door etc?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if it&#8217;s worth asking: what do wine judging competitions have in common with more reputable, even &#8220;legitimate&#8221; forms of wine review, such as those employed by magazines like Spectator, the Advocate, or Decanter. </p>
<p>Do they not suffer from the same challenges &#8211; &#8220;where and when a wine is tasted in the line-up ( fatigue, tannin build-up on the palate in huge classes) and the personal style preferences of judges on specific panels.&#8221;</p>
<p>And does it therefore all just come down to a vehicle for marketing &#8211; getting your foot in the door etc?</p>
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		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2009/09/01/wine-competition-gold-medals-odds-good-chance/#comment-272896</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 03:25:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=4690#comment-272896</guid>
		<description>I learned long ago not to trust medal-winning claims for any domestic wine.  Call it prejudice, but I will avoid any wine that claims to have won a medal at the Los Angeles County Fair. Blecchhh!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I learned long ago not to trust medal-winning claims for any domestic wine.  Call it prejudice, but I will avoid any wine that claims to have won a medal at the Los Angeles County Fair. Blecchhh!</p>
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		<title>By: Cathy</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2009/09/01/wine-competition-gold-medals-odds-good-chance/#comment-272638</link>
		<dc:creator>Cathy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 15:30:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=4690#comment-272638</guid>
		<description>Your question: What do you think explains this disparity: something inherent to wine competitions, the nature of blind tasting, or a lack of consensus of quality wine? 

Yes, yes and yes, I think.  

I see references to medals in tasting rooms most often (Michigan, Canada). They&#039;re of interest, but don&#039;t affect my buying because, well, I get to taste and decide what I like. Retail, I buy wine I already know something about in the grocery store and I buy on recommendations in wine stores, where I&#039;m usually looking for something I don&#039;t know about.
  
I do most years, though, buy the best in class wines in the Michigan wine competition just to see if I agree with the judges.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your question: What do you think explains this disparity: something inherent to wine competitions, the nature of blind tasting, or a lack of consensus of quality wine? </p>
<p>Yes, yes and yes, I think.  </p>
<p>I see references to medals in tasting rooms most often (Michigan, Canada). They&#8217;re of interest, but don&#8217;t affect my buying because, well, I get to taste and decide what I like. Retail, I buy wine I already know something about in the grocery store and I buy on recommendations in wine stores, where I&#8217;m usually looking for something I don&#8217;t know about.</p>
<p>I do most years, though, buy the best in class wines in the Michigan wine competition just to see if I agree with the judges.</p>
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		<title>By: 1WineDude</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2009/09/01/wine-competition-gold-medals-odds-good-chance/#comment-272625</link>
		<dc:creator>1WineDude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 14:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=4690#comment-272625</guid>
		<description>Tyler, the report is bunk.

The conclusions may be right, but not based on analysis of that data!  I&#039;m posting a piece on this tomorrow on my blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tyler, the report is bunk.</p>
<p>The conclusions may be right, but not based on analysis of that data!  I&#8217;m posting a piece on this tomorrow on my blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Raye</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2009/09/01/wine-competition-gold-medals-odds-good-chance/#comment-272592</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Raye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 10:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=4690#comment-272592</guid>
		<description>I just posted a comment on Alder&#039;s blog irt the same study.  The point that this study and your and Alder&#039;s posts make doesn&#039;t take into account the practccal aspects of selling wine at retail.  

As a wine marketing guy, my responsibility is to sell wine.  And in order to do that we have to get it on the shelf.  Which means the retailer and the distributor are the real gatekeepers and arbiters of what options the consumer has in the first place.

So while medals might have little consistency or quantifiable accuracy, they do play a very simple, and very important role, of getting the wine on the shelf.  This is especially true for wines from smaller producers that don&#039;t have the leverage at the distributor or retail level.  More often than not, a medal on a sell sheet is what makes the difference as to whether a wine makes it to the shelf.

So sure, medals may not be a reliable quality or value metric.  But they do play a very important role on the commercial side.  It may not be right, or fair, and may even be misleading to the consumer.  But it is the way the system works.

And that being the case, wineries are pretty much required to enter as many competitions as they can, because a gold medal, even it&#039;s from the local county fair, can be the difference between getting the wine in front of the consumer or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just posted a comment on Alder&#8217;s blog irt the same study.  The point that this study and your and Alder&#8217;s posts make doesn&#8217;t take into account the practccal aspects of selling wine at retail.  </p>
<p>As a wine marketing guy, my responsibility is to sell wine.  And in order to do that we have to get it on the shelf.  Which means the retailer and the distributor are the real gatekeepers and arbiters of what options the consumer has in the first place.</p>
<p>So while medals might have little consistency or quantifiable accuracy, they do play a very simple, and very important role, of getting the wine on the shelf.  This is especially true for wines from smaller producers that don&#8217;t have the leverage at the distributor or retail level.  More often than not, a medal on a sell sheet is what makes the difference as to whether a wine makes it to the shelf.</p>
<p>So sure, medals may not be a reliable quality or value metric.  But they do play a very important role on the commercial side.  It may not be right, or fair, and may even be misleading to the consumer.  But it is the way the system works.</p>
<p>And that being the case, wineries are pretty much required to enter as many competitions as they can, because a gold medal, even it&#8217;s from the local county fair, can be the difference between getting the wine in front of the consumer or not.</p>
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		<title>By: The Wine Mule</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2009/09/01/wine-competition-gold-medals-odds-good-chance/#comment-272456</link>
		<dc:creator>The Wine Mule</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 03:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=4690#comment-272456</guid>
		<description>As a retail salesperson, I would say that the presence of a Medaille D&#039;Or sticker on a bottle may sway a customer considering two similar bottles. To put it charitably, a medal on a wine might be a tertiary influence. Certainly nowhere near as influential as a big point score from The Spectator, the Advocate, or Decanter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a retail salesperson, I would say that the presence of a Medaille D&#8217;Or sticker on a bottle may sway a customer considering two similar bottles. To put it charitably, a medal on a wine might be a tertiary influence. Certainly nowhere near as influential as a big point score from The Spectator, the Advocate, or Decanter.</p>
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		<title>By: Betty</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2009/09/01/wine-competition-gold-medals-odds-good-chance/#comment-272395</link>
		<dc:creator>Betty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 23:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=4690#comment-272395</guid>
		<description>When I lead in-home wine tastings, I encourage the guests to trust what they like, not what the judges like. 

While judges might be in a better position to evaluate wines than many of the rest of us, they are not gods. And when you&#039;re trying upwards of 50 wines at a time, even a god might have some challenges distinguishing the great from the good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I lead in-home wine tastings, I encourage the guests to trust what they like, not what the judges like. </p>
<p>While judges might be in a better position to evaluate wines than many of the rest of us, they are not gods. And when you&#8217;re trying upwards of 50 wines at a time, even a god might have some challenges distinguishing the great from the good.</p>
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		<title>By: Benito</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2009/09/01/wine-competition-gold-medals-odds-good-chance/#comment-272384</link>
		<dc:creator>Benito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=4690#comment-272384</guid>
		<description>I checked the source paper to make sure they didn&#039;t make the same point about PBR, but I neglected to check the prior posts of the good professor.  ;)

It&#039;s true though, and most of your big macrobrews (that are flavorless and boring) bear titles like The King of Beers, The Champagne of Beers, The Banquet Beer, etc.  Same thing happens with whiskey--there are some real rotgut whiskeys out there with labels covered in medals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I checked the source paper to make sure they didn&#8217;t make the same point about PBR, but I neglected to check the prior posts of the good professor.  <img src='http://www.drvino.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>It&#8217;s true though, and most of your big macrobrews (that are flavorless and boring) bear titles like The King of Beers, The Champagne of Beers, The Banquet Beer, etc.  Same thing happens with whiskey&#8211;there are some real rotgut whiskeys out there with labels covered in medals.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Vino</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2009/09/01/wine-competition-gold-medals-odds-good-chance/#comment-272380</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Vino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 21:34:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=4690#comment-272380</guid>
		<description>Benito - props to you for the Pabst reference! One of my faves too
http://www.drvino.com/2006/09/06/st-emilion-revised-edition/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Benito &#8211; props to you for the Pabst reference! One of my faves too<br />
<a href="http://www.drvino.com/2006/09/06/st-emilion-revised-edition/" rel="nofollow" class="liinternal">http://www.drvino.com/2006/09/06/st-emilion-revised-edition/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Benito</title>
		<link>http://www.drvino.com/2009/09/01/wine-competition-gold-medals-odds-good-chance/#comment-272376</link>
		<dc:creator>Benito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 21:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drvino.com/?p=4690#comment-272376</guid>
		<description>I got a phone call from a friend who was trying to choose between two wines.  One had won a gold medal, the other two silvers and a bronze.  He asked which was better.  My reply?

&quot;Pabst Blue Ribbon.&quot;  And then I told him to talk to the shop owner and ignore the labels.

I will admit with full honesty that when I was just starting to purchase wine 12 years ago, I was often drawn towards wines with medals (which also happened to be fairly inexpensive), and would even point out the award to friends while pouring.  &quot;This got a silver at the Pocatello County Fair in 1993!&quot;

There&#039;s a lot of fear and nervousness among novice wine buyers--What if it&#039;s awful?  Did I just waste $15?  If I hate it do I have to pretend that I like it?  At the time I saw the medals as sort of validation, that the wine had passed some test of quality.  Certainly that strategy worked well for PBR from 1893 to the 1950s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got a phone call from a friend who was trying to choose between two wines.  One had won a gold medal, the other two silvers and a bronze.  He asked which was better.  My reply?</p>
<p>&#8220;Pabst Blue Ribbon.&#8221;  And then I told him to talk to the shop owner and ignore the labels.</p>
<p>I will admit with full honesty that when I was just starting to purchase wine 12 years ago, I was often drawn towards wines with medals (which also happened to be fairly inexpensive), and would even point out the award to friends while pouring.  &#8220;This got a silver at the Pocatello County Fair in 1993!&#8221;</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a lot of fear and nervousness among novice wine buyers&#8211;What if it&#8217;s awful?  Did I just waste $15?  If I hate it do I have to pretend that I like it?  At the time I saw the medals as sort of validation, that the wine had passed some test of quality.  Certainly that strategy worked well for PBR from 1893 to the 1950s.</p>
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