When Nebbiolo’s not for newbies – and toward a general theory of bitter
Some friends from college came to visit a few months ago. They don’t drink much wine (mostly beer and cocktails) but they wanted to try something good to see what they were missing. For some reason, when we were going over some options, I found myself gravitating toward a 2004 Barbaresco from the producer Paitin (find this wine). Young as it was, I had been wanting to try it and at about $50, it seemed like a good splurge bottle for this event.
But the bottle didn’t exactly win our friends over to the joys of wine. As much as I liked the wine, its pleasures were still tightly wound in youthful tannins, which are bitter. A wine that has angular tannins is probably not a great wine for the majority of newbies. In fact, I’ve poured young Nebbiolos in some classes and events to illustrate the grip of tannins; most people dislike them but there are always a few people who love them. I think I’ll start polling people to see if it correlates with whether they like black coffee or not.
I was talking with a beer geek (is that what they are called?) the other day and he told me about the IBU, a measure also known as the International Bittering Unit that rates the hoppy bitterness of a brew. Apparently beers can be ranked by IBUs where Bud has about five, an India Pale Ale might have 40 and a Stout might have 60+.
Given that the geekier beers tend to be the more bitter beers, could we say then that Nebbiolo is also a geeky grape because of its bitter tannins? I think so. The same as a sugary latte holds more appeal than a straight espresso, the more bitter the drink, the more of a geek you have to be, it seems. Are we moving toward a general theory of bitter? And what to serve guests who aren’t so into wine…
On August 10th, 2009 at 11:25 am ,Cassandra wrote:
I’m in the process of introducing young adult children to wine, and my experience is fruit-forward is a good start. My 25-year-old son likes Syrah, Pinot Noir, Tempranillo and Malbec and will drink off-dry whites if served. I’m still working on my daughter, who still prefers bad beer to good anything. Per your coffee test: my son drinks his coffee black, strong and often, but doesn’t like obvious tannins. I don’t like coffee, but do like tannins. We may be the exceptions, though. We often are.
On August 10th, 2009 at 12:39 pm ,Benito wrote:
Acceptance of bitter flavors has something to do with age, and might be a survival mechanism. In general, sweet plants/fruit/nuts are safe to eat and poisonous items are bitter. But over time we’ve learned that lots of bitter things are safe, and even delicious. If you’ve grown bored with sweet things or are just looking for a “new sensation” due to age-dulled taste buds, bitter foods can become very attractive.
It also has a lot to do with culture and food trends; the food of Medieval Europe was painfully bitter compared to today, and a lot of that had to do with how rare and expensive sugar and other sweeteners were. The spices we know and love were also hard to get, and the only way to add flavor to otherwise bland foods was through the use of local bitter herbs. (Cf liqueurs like Benedictine and Absinthe.)
On beer, some great ones go above 100 IBUs. I had one last week! And with wine, I’ve always liked that slight bitter edge I tend to associate with Bordeaux that have bell pepper/tobacco notes.
On August 10th, 2009 at 1:22 pm ,Dale wrote:
Along the lines of the coffee question, don’t forget tea, which is often more tannic to me than coffee.
And though we pros often dismiss the scores, just about anything that RP scores extraordinarily high means it’s gonna pummel them (the newbies) with the flavors to ‘impress.’
As for bitter beer…the IPA explosion is still continuing, but I’m curious to see how the next wave of sour beers, particularly from Belgium/Flanders, will fare.
On August 10th, 2009 at 5:41 pm ,Andy wrote:
(1st time caller. although I have read your wine politics)
I was off this past weekend on my suggestions. I am a sommelier. Reviewing my misses, I think at least twice I misread the guests’ wine experience. Once recommending too complex of a wine to newbies and the other recommending a big fruit forward AU Shiraz to a guest who wanted that tannin factor that you spoke of. Probably should have switched bottles. It had been a while since I missed so bad and so often. Had lots of wine to drink at the end of the shift. Learn daily
Like the IBU correlation.
On August 10th, 2009 at 7:47 pm ,Fine Vine wrote:
I enjoy my coffee with cream and sugar, however I like my wine with stronger flavor. There is nothing like a hearty bottle of Syrah to blast my taste buds.
On August 10th, 2009 at 9:13 pm ,Ben wrote:
Interesting post. I think you’re spot-on regarding the geeky/nerd bitter factor. Part of the huge success of sweet, rich high alcohol Aussie Shiraz is that it’s easy to ‘get’. It appeals to a lot of palates. Hence why a lot of commercial wine in general is made in a similar vein. Nebbiolo is a niche – and a great one at that.
On August 11th, 2009 at 2:46 am ,Boettcher wrote:
When trying to guesstimate someone’s palate I ask if the person prefers Red Vines or Twizzlers licorice. The Twizzler preference in my experience (n is about 50) correlates to a sweeter (or higher ALC), more extracted, more fruit forward wine than a preference for Red Vines. While not foolproof it works quite well and is a good conversation starter.
Great topic to bring up!
On August 11th, 2009 at 7:37 am ,Bill wrote:
Paitin needs patience and time. Nebbiolo can be fierce and unyielding when drunk too young. Often, it will remain closed and no amount of air will budge it if caught in a dumb phase. I had a young Paitin Barbaresco not so long ago, and I remember it just so; as if it is angry for being woken too soon. That is why Paitin makes a kind of “baby Barbaresco”- check out their Nebbiolo Ca’Vega for early consumption. Let those 2004 Barbarescos rest for now.
I like my coffee black, beers with middle of the road hops, but I like my wines to evolve(or devolve) in a glass, and I expect to see this happen.
On August 11th, 2009 at 11:08 am ,Bill Burge wrote:
60 IBUs for a beer is actually not that high. Some of your Double IPAs and Imperial IPAs will have palate wrecking quantities of IBUs in the 100 IBU realm. Something like Dogfish Head 90min IPA, Pliny the Elder, or Ruination for example.
Interestingly, these high IBU beers are some of my favorites, I’m an absolute whore for coffee, but I do not care for bitter–highly tannic–wines.
On August 11th, 2009 at 2:43 pm ,Jake wrote:
I agree… there’s a certain level of pain that I associate with drinking a Barolo or Barbaresco (especially young). Where many of us would agree that nebbiolo makes some of the worlds best wine, it may be difficult for a new wine drinker to see that.
Give them the Viottolo Nebbiolo from Australia…being intensely fruity and almost void of any tannins, many newbies should enjoy it…besides the fact that it has about the same amount in common with a Barolo as a Barossa Shiraz.
On August 11th, 2009 at 2:53 pm ,Dylan wrote:
I agree with your sentiment, Tyler. For anyone new to wine, beer, or spirits the goal should always lean further away from the bitter side. Not that these bitter tastes do not have their merit, but it is something that is learned to be appreciated over time. I know this all too well being someone who would sampled his father’s beers in disgust, only now, close to 10 years later enjoying some of those same bottles.
On August 11th, 2009 at 6:55 pm ,Damon wrote:
I’m not fond of Barolo/Barbaresco’s, probably because I don’t have the time, patience nor money to let these highly-structured bottles lie till the tannins subside & the wines evolve. But I’m definitely a fan of Nebbiolo della Langhe’s and Valtellina’s (especially Sforzato versions YUM YUM YUM) These tend to be much more approachable in their youth but aren’t your tutti-frutti hedonistic juice bombs.
The weirdest rendition of Nebbiolo I’ve had was Balgera’s prosseco-like sparkler called Chiavennasca Frizzante. Made from Nebbiolo (the chiavennasca grape in Lombardia) it’s had no skin-contact so it’s WHITE. Seriously.
It’s funny you mentioned IBU’s and the current fad of extreme high-alcohol hopped-up microbrews that seem to garner all the attention & awards at beer festivals. In some ways they can be compared to the overoaked Cali cabs that were all the rage up until recently. Both are styles that are crafted to hit you over the head & stun your palate in submission. And while both have their legions of advocates, there’s an increasing vocal minority of drinkers who want more balance & subtlety.
On August 11th, 2009 at 7:57 pm ,Dr. Vino wrote:
Great comments!
Yes, Benito, I recalled a New Yorker article about bitter but couldn’t come up with it. Did you see it?
How are IBUs computed and how could wines be similarly tested?
@Billburge – interesting you don’t like tannic wines but do like black coffee and hoppy beers. Maybe the theory needs refinement. Btw I had a draft Dogfish Head 90 minute ale the other day and liked it. But I had to dash so drank it in 30 minutes!
Funny, Damon, to compare microbrews to Cali cabs!
On August 11th, 2009 at 10:45 pm ,Benito wrote:
Dr. Vino,
My comments on bitterness and food history come from my previous life as an anthropology major. 🙂
Wikipedia has the equation on how IBUs are computed:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Bitterness_Units_scale
If you’re interested in a sort of “vertical tasting” of bitterness, try these three beers from Dogfish Head, which are pretty easy to find: 60-minute IPA, 90-minute IPA, 120-minute IPA, with the time referring to the duration of contact with hops. The recipes were tweaked so that the time signature matches the IBU rating.
Note that these need to be treated like after-dinner fortified wines rather than something to go with a bratwurst at a BBQ.
On August 12th, 2009 at 10:03 am ,Pietro wrote:
When I was young Barolo was often defined as a ” vino di arrivo”. Not a completely correct Italian expression but it gave the idea: a wine you had to “arrive” to,just as you do with more complex food and tastes.
It was not a wine for beginners and that’s what it still is.
However, thanks for the IBU suggestion. I think it adds an extra dimension to the debate but I personally think this has to do more with complexity which necessarily means more tannins.
There are lots of studies about how the human palate evolved to naturally tend to dislike bitterness as it was often associated with poison and/or danger. Unfortunately too many humans ( especially of the Homo Americanus subspecies) seem to have overcome their fears and are bidding up the prices for Barolo and Barbaresco ( which I personally tend to prefer)to levels where we can’t afford to buy it anymore 🙂
On August 12th, 2009 at 6:04 pm ,Paul Strobl wrote:
Great analogy! I’m a former beer geek (does one ever lose the title?) and aspiring wine geek living Mendoza, Argentina. Recently tasted a Nebbiolo and loved it. And, well, I love ridiculously hoppy beer…go figure…
On August 13th, 2009 at 9:01 am ,Joseph wrote:
This post really enlightens me about bitterness. I find that I’m in the minority who prefer bitterness.
I love Evian water because I find it has a slight bitterness. I enjoy an almost black coffee (I do add a little sugar). I enjoy only medium to dark beer, particularly stouts because they are bitter (I can’t stand pale beer). And I do like bitter, tannic wines. I’ve only tried Nebbiolo once, in your class actually. I do remember it being very much a taste bud twister. I do look forward to looking for Barbarescos the next time I’m in a wine shop.
I still wonder why do certain people have a predilection for bitter tastes? Are our taste buds less sensitive to subtle tastes, requiring massive flavors to be satisfied? Does this say something about our personalities? Here’s to bitterness nonetheless!
On August 14th, 2009 at 5:50 am ,Newspaper wine clubs - are they any good? NYT jumps in | Dr Vino's wine blog wrote:
[…] as sourcing incredible deals since the wines are essentially pre-sold. But clubs could also send a bitter, tannic wine to someone who likes only sweet, for example. The biggest drawback with many clubs, it would seem, […]
On September 14th, 2009 at 8:57 pm ,tom hyland wrote:
Remember that with a Barolo or Barbaresco (both made exclusively from Nebbiolo), you have the bitterness of the Nebbiolo grape coming from the natural grape tannins and then you have the tannins of the wood, which are especially strong when aged in barriques, small French oak barrels.
The more that publications such as The Wine Spectator promote this latter style of wine – flashy with deep color and offering the toasty vanillin qualities of small barrels – the more producers will make wine that way. Thus more consumers will think that this is what these wines are supposed to taste like. If you’re not used to wines such as these, then they will indeed taste quite bitter.
Nebbiolo is a tannic variety, so it makes little sense to age it in small barrels where the wine actually picks up more tannins. Try a Barbaresco aged in large casks such as one from Produttori del Barbaresco or a Barolo from a producer such as Marcarini (Brunate, La Serra) also aged in large casks to experience a rounder, less bitter version of Nebbiolo. Not to mention, these examples are great evidence of their terroir.
Or try a Roero Rosso (also Nebbiolo) or a Nebbiolo d’Alba, which are much less aggressive in their tannins and thus much less bitter.
So to merely say that Nebbiolo is bitter misses the point, doesn’t it?