Comments on: Is there a consensus about good wine? http://www.drvino.com/2008/05/22/is-there-a-consensus-about-good-wine/ wine talk that goes down easy Sun, 12 Oct 2008 20:03:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc By: Watson B http://www.drvino.com/2008/05/22/is-there-a-consensus-about-good-wine/#comment-109668 Watson B Thu, 29 May 2008 14:46:44 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=1696#comment-109668 it's too true, My Step-Mother, who needless to say has an amazingly accurate palate, has honorable luck with wines at our favorite restaurant/bar, I'ed say that she sends back about 1 out of 3 glasses of wine. but i guess it's just like they say: Taste, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.... or would that be nasal cavity? it’s too true, My Step-Mother, who needless to say has an amazingly accurate palate, has honorable luck with wines at our favorite restaurant/bar, I’ed say that she sends back about 1 out of 3 glasses of wine. but i guess it’s just like they say: Taste, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder…. or would that be nasal cavity?

]]> By: Gina http://www.drvino.com/2008/05/22/is-there-a-consensus-about-good-wine/#comment-109328 Gina Wed, 28 May 2008 16:16:08 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=1696#comment-109328 Mr. Parker didn't say "there is a general consensus among those critics who publish scores for a living as to what is good wine". He said there was general consensus. There isn't. Not among professionals, and not among consumers. Mr. Parker didn’t say “there is a general consensus among those critics who publish scores for a living as to what is good wine”.
He said there was general consensus. There isn’t. Not among professionals, and not among consumers.

]]> By: Steve http://www.drvino.com/2008/05/22/is-there-a-consensus-about-good-wine/#comment-109167 Steve Wed, 28 May 2008 03:19:54 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=1696#comment-109167 I'm surprised that anyone would think their is consensus in wine scoring. If the scores that our users give is any guide, there is certainly no consensus among the "less educated" palate. To Noah's point, I wonder what the overall distribution of published scores is. How often is a score less than 80 published? I don't think it is very often - which would imply that any wine score around 90 would be almost guaranteed consensus by the +/-10 gauge. I’m surprised that anyone would think their is consensus in wine scoring. If the scores that our users give is any guide, there is certainly no consensus among the “less educated” palate.

To Noah’s point, I wonder what the overall distribution of published scores is. How often is a score less than 80 published? I don’t think it is very often - which would imply that any wine score around 90 would be almost guaranteed consensus by the +/-10 gauge.

]]> By: Noah http://www.drvino.com/2008/05/22/is-there-a-consensus-about-good-wine/#comment-109154 Noah Wed, 28 May 2008 01:58:51 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=1696#comment-109154 On a contrarian note, I think I actually agree with Parker here although it depends on how you take his quote. I think the ratings of critics bear this out. While there are the occasional polarizing wines, most frequently wines are scored in the same scoring band. How often do you see wine ratings with a discrepancy of more than say 10 points? Not that often. If a series of critics give a wine a wine a 96, 93, 91 89 and 87, they all agreed that it was good no? Although the consequences on sales of those wines might be affected, it doesn't appear to me that they would have disagreed on the fact that it was a "good" wine. Of course everyone has different stylistic preferences and occasions call for different things. But on the whole I would imagine that there would be more agreement on what is good than not. On a contrarian note, I think I actually agree with Parker here although it depends on how you take his quote. I think the ratings of critics bear this out. While there are the occasional polarizing wines, most frequently wines are scored in the same scoring band. How often do you see wine ratings with a discrepancy of more than say 10 points? Not that often. If a series of critics give a wine a wine a 96, 93, 91 89 and 87, they all agreed that it was good no? Although the consequences on sales of those wines might be affected, it doesn’t appear to me that they would have disagreed on the fact that it was a “good” wine.

Of course everyone has different stylistic preferences and occasions call for different things. But on the whole I would imagine that there would be more agreement on what is good than not.

]]> By: Dr. Vino http://www.drvino.com/2008/05/22/is-there-a-consensus-about-good-wine/#comment-109090 Dr. Vino Tue, 27 May 2008 20:48:55 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=1696#comment-109090 BB - funny, I've seen that too. Vigneron - yes, I'm sure HBO is booking it now. Boyce - looking forward to your report! BB - funny, I’ve seen that too.

Vigneron - yes, I’m sure HBO is booking it now.

Boyce - looking forward to your report!

]]> By: boyce http://www.drvino.com/2008/05/22/is-there-a-consensus-about-good-wine/#comment-108972 boyce Tue, 27 May 2008 13:17:08 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=1696#comment-108972 I went to the trade tasting Robert Parker led in Beijing yesterday. He said at the outset he looks for wines that are "pure" and "respect the integrity of the grapes" from which they are made. "You take one sip, one smell, and it pulls you back like a magnet." That seemed vague to me. On the other hand, it was evident that while people might differ on which of the eight wines we tasted were "best", we could also agree - have a general consensus - that these wines were "good." By the way, I went to the Beijing equivalent of that USD3000 dinner in Tokyo. Ours was on the Great Wall and I am still trying to get my mind around it for a blog post. Cheers, Boyce I went to the trade tasting Robert Parker led in Beijing yesterday. He said at the outset he looks for wines that are “pure” and “respect the integrity of the grapes” from which they are made. “You take one sip, one smell, and it pulls you back like a magnet.”

That seemed vague to me. On the other hand, it was evident that while people might differ on which of the eight wines we tasted were “best”, we could also agree - have a general consensus - that these wines were “good.”

By the way, I went to the Beijing equivalent of that USD3000 dinner in Tokyo. Ours was on the Great Wall and I am still trying to get my mind around it for a blog post.

Cheers, Boyce

]]> By: Gary R.Sullivan http://www.drvino.com/2008/05/22/is-there-a-consensus-about-good-wine/#comment-108961 Gary R.Sullivan Tue, 27 May 2008 12:26:32 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=1696#comment-108961 It is in my experience that there are times when I just want to "drink" wine, and then other times when I wish to "evaluate" wine. There are many good drinkable wines out there. They may not have the complexity (well,duh, they just don't) of a really great, well crafted wine, but they "drink" without making your nose curl. I tend to save the great ones to enjoy with friends so we can talk about them, and of course, there are always contrasting opinions. The best thing about wine is that, if you like it, drink it! $20 or $200, you may like them for different reasons...but it's good to like them both! Sips n' Nibbles... It is in my experience that there are times when I just want to “drink” wine, and then other times when I wish to “evaluate” wine. There are many good drinkable wines out there. They may not have the complexity (well,duh, they just don’t) of a really great, well crafted wine, but they “drink” without making your nose curl. I tend to save the great ones to enjoy with friends so we can talk about them, and of course, there are always contrasting opinions. The best thing about wine is that, if you like it, drink it! $20 or $200, you may like them for different reasons…but it’s good to like them both!

Sips n’ Nibbles…

]]> By: Gina http://www.drvino.com/2008/05/22/is-there-a-consensus-about-good-wine/#comment-108806 Gina Mon, 26 May 2008 23:16:30 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=1696#comment-108806 This is nothing new from him. He's said the same thing for years, and even printed it on the cover page of each and every issue of his Wine Advocate: "There are specific standards of quality that full-time wine professionals recognize..." He's wrong, of course. But what can you do? This is nothing new from him.
He’s said the same thing for years, and even printed it on the cover page of each and every issue of his Wine Advocate:
“There are specific standards of quality that full-time wine professionals recognize…”

He’s wrong, of course.
But what can you do?

]]> By: Vigneron http://www.drvino.com/2008/05/22/is-there-a-consensus-about-good-wine/#comment-107763 Vigneron Fri, 23 May 2008 22:42:57 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=1696#comment-107763 Wow, Bob versus Alice Feiring in a blind tasting together could be a pay per view event. Who can really stick to their guns, and be consistent. Wow, Bob versus Alice Feiring in a blind tasting together could be a pay per view event. Who can really stick to their guns, and be consistent.

]]> By: Nancy http://www.drvino.com/2008/05/22/is-there-a-consensus-about-good-wine/#comment-107293 Nancy Fri, 23 May 2008 01:15:59 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=1696#comment-107293 I've got a story somewhat in the same vein. A wine shop owner I know said recently, "I don't really care for French wine." I could only blink. Aren't there some things everybody agrees on? I’ve got a story somewhat in the same vein. A wine shop owner I know said recently, “I don’t really care for French wine.”

I could only blink. Aren’t there some things everybody agrees on?

]]> By: Taster B http://www.drvino.com/2008/05/22/is-there-a-consensus-about-good-wine/#comment-107215 Taster B Thu, 22 May 2008 20:50:06 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=1696#comment-107215 Great comments so far. I don't even always agree with myself what is good wine. Subjectivity is, by definition, subject to inconsistency and swayed by mood and other factors. Not every wine can be sublime but that doesn't mean it's bad. So it comes down to where on the scale of goodness it falls. Rating wine of similar craftsmanship on the scale of goodness seems largely pointless except as a means of displaying ones ability to discern. The ability to discern between one thing and another is very valuable, however, the focus on quantifying qualitative factors seems to me to be mostly an exercise in futility. I don't pay attention to critics much, and I don't try to rate wines myself (but, I know what I like)--I prefer to explore a wine as I would explore a garden or a painting, looking for the nuance, or simply letting the impression of the moment wash over me. If a wine can't give me that opportunity, then it's not good wine IMHO. Great comments so far. I don’t even always agree with myself what is good wine. Subjectivity is, by definition, subject to inconsistency and swayed by mood and other factors. Not every wine can be sublime but that doesn’t mean it’s bad. So it comes down to where on the scale of goodness it falls. Rating wine of similar craftsmanship on the scale of goodness seems largely pointless except as a means of displaying ones ability to discern. The ability to discern between one thing and another is very valuable, however, the focus on quantifying qualitative factors seems to me to be mostly an exercise in futility. I don’t pay attention to critics much, and I don’t try to rate wines myself (but, I know what I like)–I prefer to explore a wine as I would explore a garden or a painting, looking for the nuance, or simply letting the impression of the moment wash over me. If a wine can’t give me that opportunity, then it’s not good wine IMHO.

]]> By: bb http://www.drvino.com/2008/05/22/is-there-a-consensus-about-good-wine/#comment-107145 bb Thu, 22 May 2008 17:36:45 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=1696#comment-107145 I have found myself in situations where competent tasters can not agree whether a wine is corked or not. I would never think that folks would always agree about whether or not a wine was good. I have found myself in situations where competent tasters can not agree whether a wine is corked or not. I would never think that folks would always agree about whether or not a wine was good.

]]> By: Viinipiru, Helsinki http://www.drvino.com/2008/05/22/is-there-a-consensus-about-good-wine/#comment-107080 Viinipiru, Helsinki Thu, 22 May 2008 14:28:45 +0000 http://www.drvino.com/?p=1696#comment-107080 I agree with you. The burden of wine culture is pseudo-scientific approach cherished by those equipped with technocratic mindsets that seem to think (unconsciously no doubt) that world would be a better place if every object, idea and emotion could be labeled and measured in the same way a bunch of engineers calculate durability of a bridge constructed in a wrong place. The blame is on Plato, Luther, Kant and many others, but I think it's about time we bring wine culture to the 21st Century by releasing ourselves from the oppressive tyranny of reason! I agree with you. The burden of wine culture is pseudo-scientific approach cherished by those equipped with technocratic mindsets that seem to think (unconsciously no doubt) that world would be a better place if every object, idea and emotion could be labeled and measured in the same way a bunch of engineers calculate durability of a bridge constructed in a wrong place.

The blame is on Plato, Luther, Kant and many others, but I think it’s about time we bring wine culture to the 21st Century by releasing ourselves from the oppressive tyranny of reason!

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