Comments on: Robert Parker admits to “the emotion of the moment,” threatening the basis of wine scores! http://www.drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/ wine talk that goes down easy Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:01:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: bob rohden http://www.drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/comment-page-1/#comment-13663 bob rohden Thu, 19 Jul 2007 16:56:09 +0000 http://drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/#comment-13663 the emotion of the moment threatening the basis of wine scores Is it possible that admitting to having emotions during the tasting moment doesn't really "threaten" the score basis, but actually makes the score more believeable? Most wine-serious people are not swayed, let alone even life-altered, by the difference between a 96 and a 97 rating on a wine or between two wines. Or an 84/85 - 89/90 - and probably even that very rare 91/93 moment, if you will. These same people would most likely enjoy a bit of human emotion injected into their fray from time to time. In the early days when 20 points was all a wine could muster, the introduction of the new 100-point parkerscale was spoken about as almost earth-shattering to us hoi polloi. Finally the masses would be able to discern among the wines reviewed, awarded, etc. and, by knowing the final objective truths which this scale would religiously reveal, we would be able to buy the wines we were told to desire. Hoi oligoi would continue to rely on the MW in their shop to stock their cellars anyway, without any applied personal need to bother with such trivia. A perceived social win/win moment. Alas, the collecting society seems to be uneasy with such perceptions. Always looking for the leg up in the situation. How sad they must feel, or is it a sense of betrayal, the moment when godbob announces he is really human after all and attributes his one-point differences to [gasp] momentary emotionality. That Domaine Deuxièmes 2000 is now a 94 not a 95?? Merde, I say!! Call my MW and cancel my order this minute!! the emotion of the moment threatening the basis of wine scores

Is it possible that admitting to having emotions during the tasting moment doesn’t really “threaten” the score basis, but actually makes the score more believeable?
Most wine-serious people are not swayed, let alone even life-altered, by the difference between a 96 and a 97 rating on a wine or between two wines. Or an 84/85 - 89/90 - and probably even that very rare 91/93 moment, if you will.
These same people would most likely enjoy a bit of human emotion injected into their fray from time to time.
In the early days when 20 points was all a wine could muster, the introduction of the new 100-point parkerscale was spoken about as almost earth-shattering to us hoi polloi.
Finally the masses would be able to discern among the wines reviewed, awarded, etc. and, by knowing the final objective truths which this scale would religiously reveal, we would be able to buy the wines we were told to desire. Hoi oligoi would continue to rely on the MW in their shop to stock their cellars anyway, without any applied personal need to bother with such trivia.
A perceived social win/win moment.
Alas, the collecting society seems to be uneasy with such perceptions. Always looking for the leg up in the situation.
How sad they must feel, or is it a sense of betrayal, the moment when godbob announces he is really human after all and attributes his one-point differences to [gasp] momentary emotionality.
That Domaine Deuxièmes 2000 is now a 94 not a 95?? Merde, I say!! Call my MW and cancel my order this minute!!

]]> By: BNJTokyo http://www.drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/comment-page-1/#comment-13606 BNJTokyo Thu, 19 Jul 2007 03:15:41 +0000 http://drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/#comment-13606 For an objective evaluation of wine scores and wine critics, check out the following article. http://www.winebusiness.com/Archives/Monthly/1998/September/bmi9815.htm The author, Scott Shewbridge, used to have a number of similar articles on the internet, but his consulting company seems to have gone out of business and the articles have disappeared. I once had a friend with a statistical annalysis package on his computer run a coorelation between Parker scores and Wine Spectator scores. The raw data was from an article on Sauterne in the Wine Spectator and one of Parker's books that rated the same wines (chateau and year). My friend said that in his opinion the inter-rater reliability was fairly good. Cheers, BNJTokyo For an objective evaluation of wine scores and wine critics, check out the following article.

http://www.winebusiness.com/Archives/Monthly/1998/September/bmi9815.htm

The author, Scott Shewbridge, used to have a number of similar articles on the internet, but his consulting company seems to have gone out of business and the articles have disappeared.

I once had a friend with a statistical annalysis package on his computer run a coorelation between Parker scores and Wine Spectator scores. The raw data was from an article on Sauterne in the Wine Spectator and one of Parker’s books that rated the same wines (chateau and year). My friend said that in his opinion the inter-rater reliability was fairly good.

Cheers, BNJTokyo

]]> By: Snooth.com: Non-Obnoxious 2.0 — Grape Juice Archive http://www.drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/comment-page-1/#comment-13332 Snooth.com: Non-Obnoxious 2.0 — Grape Juice Archive Mon, 16 Jul 2007 16:01:22 +0000 http://drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/#comment-13332 [...] Parker Jr., who admits to being human by saying that wine ratings can be affected by the “emotion of the moment“. Which is more or less accurate? Neither really, they’re alternative means to a [...] [...] Parker Jr., who admits to being human by saying that wine ratings can be affected by the “emotion of the moment“. Which is more or less accurate? Neither really, they’re alternative means to a [...]

]]> By: Dr. Vino http://www.drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/comment-page-1/#comment-12161 Dr. Vino Fri, 06 Jul 2007 13:03:15 +0000 http://drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/#comment-12161 Marco, Wow, if words can't do wine justice, you're right, a single number doesn't stand a chance! Great find! Marco,

Wow, if words can’t do wine justice, you’re right, a single number doesn’t stand a chance! Great find!

]]> By: Marco Romano http://www.drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/comment-page-1/#comment-12159 Marco Romano Fri, 06 Jul 2007 12:48:37 +0000 http://drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/#comment-12159 Richard Olney said in his "Reflexions": "Words cannot touch the soul of a wine." I would add a number or score to that statement. Richard Olney said in his “Reflexions”: “Words cannot touch the soul of a wine.” I would add a number or score to that statement.

]]> By: domaine547 » Purple Pages Free Trial! http://www.drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/comment-page-1/#comment-12080 domaine547 » Purple Pages Free Trial! Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:02:58 +0000 http://drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/#comment-12080 [...] blunt, to the point, and knows her stuff. She doesn’t seem to get caught up in the emotion that other critics have grudgingly admitted to, though it’s clear she understands that tasting wine is completely [...] [...] blunt, to the point, and knows her stuff. She doesn’t seem to get caught up in the emotion that other critics have grudgingly admitted to, though it’s clear she understands that tasting wine is completely [...]

]]> By: Dr. Vino http://www.drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/comment-page-1/#comment-12077 Dr. Vino Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:36:49 +0000 http://drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/#comment-12077 Jay, That is such a provocative claim, it simply must be put to the test. What if I come to a place of your choosing and pour you 10 wines blind that you have previously rated. Then a few weeks later you come to a (reasonable) place of my choosing and I'll pour you the same 10 wines again, blind. If you can reproduce the EXACT scores, both times, then, I will be convinced not only of your ability but also of the point system's accuracy. Of course if you can't nail the exact scores then you have no business slapping single-number scores on wine. Or, as Tish suggests, it could be a public event with the proceeds to benefit a charity. Shall we set a date for round one? Best, Tyler Jay,

That is such a provocative claim, it simply must be put to the test. What if I come to a place of your choosing and pour you 10 wines blind that you have previously rated. Then a few weeks later you come to a (reasonable) place of my choosing and I’ll pour you the same 10 wines again, blind. If you can reproduce the EXACT scores, both times, then, I will be convinced not only of your ability but also of the point system’s accuracy. Of course if you can’t nail the exact scores then you have no business slapping single-number scores on wine. Or, as Tish suggests, it could be a public event with the proceeds to benefit a charity.

Shall we set a date for round one?

Best,

Tyler

]]> By: Steve http://www.drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/comment-page-1/#comment-12072 Steve Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:31:15 +0000 http://drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/#comment-12072 Jancis Robinson says the same thing about the precision of her scores - that they are identical for the same wines tasted a week or a few months later. I guess we have to take their word for it, but I - like Tish - would love to see a public blind tasting competition. TO THE ARENA GIANT WINE CRITICS! Of course no big wine critic would expose themselves to the possibility of appearing infallible. Wussies! What we need are critics like gladiators! Jancis Robinson says the same thing about the precision of her scores - that they are identical for the same wines tasted a week or a few months later. I guess we have to take their word for it, but I - like Tish - would love to see a public blind tasting competition. TO THE ARENA GIANT WINE CRITICS!

Of course no big wine critic would expose themselves to the possibility of appearing infallible. Wussies! What we need are critics like gladiators!

]]> By: Tish http://www.drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/comment-page-1/#comment-12038 Tish Thu, 05 Jul 2007 13:12:34 +0000 http://drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/#comment-12038 With all due respect to critics like Jay Miller and Bob Parker, there is no way human beings can replicate their scores on the 100-point scale. Just not happening. Can they nail a wine in categories, like 95-99, 90-94? Probably, but the implication of the 10-point scale is the very reason it's a 100-point scale instead of, say, 5 stars. It can not be done. If a critic disagrees, perhaps he would be willing to do a blind tasting/rating challenge for charity? With all due respect to critics like Jay Miller and Bob Parker, there is no way human beings can replicate their scores on the 100-point scale. Just not happening. Can they nail a wine in categories, like 95-99, 90-94? Probably, but the implication of the 10-point scale is the very reason it’s a 100-point scale instead of, say, 5 stars. It can not be done. If a critic disagrees, perhaps he would be willing to do a blind tasting/rating challenge for charity?

]]> By: M LONG http://www.drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/comment-page-1/#comment-12011 M LONG Thu, 05 Jul 2007 03:29:54 +0000 http://drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/#comment-12011 Of course. Does RP even need to state such an obvious fact? I follow rating but do it in sets of 10. A 90 - 100 wine is hopefully " better " than an 80 - 90 wine. To me the different between a 98 and a 96 rating is the color of the wall or the time of day of the rating.....meaning...very little difference. Rating are like recipes, they are simply roadmaps IMHO. But, I would rather have a RP rating then no rating at all. Of course. Does RP even need to state such an obvious fact? I follow rating but do it in sets of 10. A 90 - 100 wine is hopefully ” better ” than an 80 - 90 wine.

To me the different between a 98 and a 96 rating is the color of the wall or the time of day of the rating…..meaning…very little difference.

Rating are like recipes, they are simply roadmaps IMHO.

But, I would rather have a RP rating then no rating at all.

]]> By: Jay Miller http://www.drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/comment-page-1/#comment-11947 Jay Miller Wed, 04 Jul 2007 16:19:23 +0000 http://drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/#comment-11947 I think the most important issue is reliability. Forgetting "emotion" for the moment, if Bob (or any other critic) rates a wine 95 (or 100) one day, will it get the same, or nearly the same score a week or a month later(under blind tasting conditions). MrBigJ I think the most important issue is reliability. Forgetting “emotion” for the moment, if Bob (or any other critic) rates a wine 95 (or 100) one day, will it get the same, or nearly the same score a week or a month later(under blind tasting conditions).
MrBigJ

]]> By: Brian http://www.drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/comment-page-1/#comment-11866 Brian Tue, 03 Jul 2007 20:10:35 +0000 http://drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/#comment-11866 we're willing to read multi-line descriptions... why not ask for more than one quantitative descriptor? we’re willing to read multi-line descriptions… why not ask for more than one quantitative descriptor?

]]> By: Suzanne Obermire http://www.drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/comment-page-1/#comment-11852 Suzanne Obermire Tue, 03 Jul 2007 16:21:54 +0000 http://drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/#comment-11852 I guess it all goes back to it's all about what the individual likes. If you like it, drink it! Ratings are over-rated :) I guess it all goes back to it’s all about what the individual likes. If you like it, drink it! Ratings are over-rated :)

]]> By: Terry Hughes http://www.drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/comment-page-1/#comment-11846 Terry Hughes Tue, 03 Jul 2007 14:37:56 +0000 http://drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/#comment-11846 You know, the Dedicated Followers of Parker are going to ignore or reinterpret his admirably honest statement to uphold their value system. Uh, points system. They worship a Graven Image. Honest as Parker himself may be, there's [big] money in that there cult. You know, the Dedicated Followers of Parker are going to ignore or reinterpret his admirably honest statement to uphold their value system. Uh, points system. They worship a Graven Image.

Honest as Parker himself may be, there’s [big] money in that there cult.

]]> By: Steve http://www.drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/comment-page-1/#comment-11802 Steve Mon, 02 Jul 2007 22:25:25 +0000 http://drvino.com/2007/07/02/robert-parker-admits-to-the-emotion-of-the-moment-threatening-the-basis-of-wine-scores/#comment-11802 Scores do matter but the precision of the 100 point and 20 point scales are bogus. Go with a chunkier scale instead like the 5-star (my fav) or thumbs up/ thumbs down etc. Scores do matter but the precision of the 100 point and 20 point scales are bogus.

Go with a chunkier scale instead like the 5-star (my fav) or thumbs up/ thumbs down etc.

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