Comments on: High alcohol wines, are they built to last? http://www.drvino.com/2007/01/04/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/ wine talk that goes down easy Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:49:49 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc By: Dr Vino’s wine blog » Blog Archive » Is the clock ticking on hedonistic fruit bombs? http://www.drvino.com/2007/01/04/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-48211 Dr Vino’s wine blog » Blog Archive » Is the clock ticking on hedonistic fruit bombs? Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:14:42 +0000 http://70.103.16.189/~drvinoco/wordpress/2007/01/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-48211 [...] “hedonistic fruit bombs” gaining speed? Previously in the year we’ve noted that they don’t age, a retailer who refuses to sell wine over 14.5% alcohol, and a Napa winemaker who said “higher [...] [...] “hedonistic fruit bombs” gaining speed? Previously in the year we’ve noted that they don’t age, a retailer who refuses to sell wine over 14.5% alcohol, and a Napa winemaker who said “higher [...]

]]> By: Julie http://www.drvino.com/2007/01/04/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-47926 Julie Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:07:55 +0000 http://70.103.16.189/~drvinoco/wordpress/2007/01/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-47926 This weekend I Google-searched articles on aging Zin and linked into the Dr. Vino blog. I see I'm a little late to the party, since you guys were posting last January -- but Doc sent me running to my cellar for my '02 bottle of Turley Zin from the Dusi Vineyard. Get your hankies -- it had turned. What a disappointment! I'd bought this wine from the winery on a trip in October, 2005 -- a trip for which I have fond memories. The color was ok, so I was encouraged. However, although I could taste cherry flavors, it was musty and, well, nasty. So I ran to open a bottle of 2003 Ridge, one which is a meritage of mostly Zin. It had held up just fine, and I'm drinking it now to assuage my sorrow over the Turley debacle. You probably saved all the other bottles of Zin in my collection, so, thanks! Cheers, Julia This weekend I Google-searched articles on aging Zin and linked into the Dr. Vino blog. I see I’m a little late to the party, since you guys were posting last January — but Doc sent me running to my cellar for my ‘02 bottle of Turley Zin from the Dusi Vineyard. Get your hankies — it had turned. What a disappointment! I’d bought this wine from the winery on a trip in October, 2005 — a trip for which I have fond memories. The color was ok, so I was encouraged. However, although I could taste cherry flavors, it was musty and, well, nasty. So I ran to open a bottle of 2003 Ridge, one which is a meritage of mostly Zin. It had held up just fine, and I’m drinking it now to assuage my sorrow over the Turley debacle. You probably saved all the other bottles of Zin in my collection, so, thanks! Cheers, Julia

]]> By: Dr. Vino http://www.drvino.com/2007/01/04/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-704 Dr. Vino Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:56:00 +0000 http://70.103.16.189/~drvinoco/wordpress/2007/01/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-704 Hey Jerry,<BR/><BR/>I'd say, bottoms up! Unless you are hoping to sell it as a complete case one day. (lots of 11 bottles are heavily discounted)<BR/><BR/>But if you ever plan to pull a cork, I'd say pick a fun evening in the near future and have a crack at it. And let us know how it goes! The key issue may be *extraction,* as Bob points out above, not the high alcohol per se. In 1980 nobody really made super-extracted wines like the Turleys I had. And the alc may not have been as high as now. So it could still be good. Let me know either way!<BR/><BR/>Cheers,<BR/><BR/>Tyler Hey Jerry,

I’d say, bottoms up! Unless you are hoping to sell it as a complete case one day. (lots of 11 bottles are heavily discounted)

But if you ever plan to pull a cork, I’d say pick a fun evening in the near future and have a crack at it. And let us know how it goes! The key issue may be *extraction,* as Bob points out above, not the high alcohol per se. In 1980 nobody really made super-extracted wines like the Turleys I had. And the alc may not have been as high as now. So it could still be good. Let me know either way!

Cheers,

Tyler

]]> By: Jerry http://www.drvino.com/2007/01/04/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-705 Jerry Mon, 22 Jan 2007 02:23:00 +0000 http://70.103.16.189/~drvinoco/wordpress/2007/01/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-705 Dr. Vino,<BR/><BR/>You have made me very nervous. I have a case of 1980 Northcoast Louis M.<BR/>Martini Zinfandel. Any suggestions? Dr. Vino,

You have made me very nervous. I have a case of 1980 Northcoast Louis M.
Martini Zinfandel. Any suggestions?

]]> By: bobzaguy http://www.drvino.com/2007/01/04/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-706 bobzaguy Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:26:00 +0000 http://70.103.16.189/~drvinoco/wordpress/2007/01/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-706 I am thinking that it isn't the high alcohol alone that is the culprit, but the "high extract" fruit bomb approach. Remember that to get this extract you have to drain away the water. What's all that extract gonna do but drop out of suspension and that's the end of balance. And unbalanced wine is, well, you know...bleachkg. I am thinking that it isn’t the high alcohol alone that is the culprit, but the “high extract” fruit bomb approach. Remember that to get this extract you have to drain away the water. What’s all that extract gonna do but drop out of suspension and that’s the end of balance. And unbalanced wine is, well, you know…bleachkg.

]]> By: Joe http://www.drvino.com/2007/01/04/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-707 Joe Fri, 12 Jan 2007 23:21:00 +0000 http://70.103.16.189/~drvinoco/wordpress/2007/01/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-707 I had a 94 Ridge Geyserville in Jan. 2006 - it was not yet "Turleyed", but certainly tired. If that is supposed to be amongst the most age-worthy of Zins, don't wait. I had a 94 Ridge Geyserville in Jan. 2006 - it was not yet “Turleyed”, but certainly tired. If that is supposed to be amongst the most age-worthy of Zins, don’t wait.

]]> By: Paul Sharp http://www.drvino.com/2007/01/04/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-708 Paul Sharp Mon, 08 Jan 2007 20:36:00 +0000 http://70.103.16.189/~drvinoco/wordpress/2007/01/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-708 I don’t have much experience of Zin as it’s hard to come by in NZ but it sounds a lot like a wine that is designed to show well when it’s young and being entered in shows/tasings. <BR/>In a way it is nice to have wines that should be drunk young rather than having to cellar them for thirty years to get an idea of their potential. But is this perceived as a mark against its quality by the consumer? I don’t have much experience of Zin as it’s hard to come by in NZ but it sounds a lot like a wine that is designed to show well when it’s young and being entered in shows/tasings.
In a way it is nice to have wines that should be drunk young rather than having to cellar them for thirty years to get an idea of their potential. But is this perceived as a mark against its quality by the consumer?

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.drvino.com/2007/01/04/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-709 Anonymous Sat, 06 Jan 2007 20:07:00 +0000 http://70.103.16.189/~drvinoco/wordpress/2007/01/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-709 Generally I'm of the mind that high-alcohol blockbusters like Turley Zins won't age well, but have to admit that the 97 Tofanelli I pulled out the the cellar a week before Christmas was far better than I might have imagined it. Perhaps because of the braised short-ribs I ate with it, but the alcohol didn't seem at all out of balance (unlike the alcohol on some younger Turley wines), the fruit wasn't explosive, but it was bright, and the wine had, dare I say it, finesse. Wish I had another bottle to pull out next year. Generally I’m of the mind that high-alcohol blockbusters like Turley Zins won’t age well, but have to admit that the 97 Tofanelli I pulled out the the cellar a week before Christmas was far better than I might have imagined it. Perhaps because of the braised short-ribs I ate with it, but the alcohol didn’t seem at all out of balance (unlike the alcohol on some younger Turley wines), the fruit wasn’t explosive, but it was bright, and the wine had, dare I say it, finesse. Wish I had another bottle to pull out next year.

]]> By: Dr. Vino http://www.drvino.com/2007/01/04/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-710 Dr. Vino Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:38:00 +0000 http://70.103.16.189/~drvinoco/wordpress/2007/01/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-710 Alder, perhaps. The most recent review on cellartracker.com for this wine reads:<BR/><BR/>"Almost port like. Has lost a lot of its fruit and is not very interesting at this stage."<BR/><BR/>As I mentioned in the original posting, I had a 1998 syrah that had been in the same cellar conditions and it was drinking beautifully. <BR/><BR/>As far as the broader question goes, do you have any more tasting experiences of monster zins or shiraz with 10 years of age on them? Alder, perhaps. The most recent review on cellartracker.com for this wine reads:

“Almost port like. Has lost a lot of its fruit and is not very interesting at this stage.”

As I mentioned in the original posting, I had a 1998 syrah that had been in the same cellar conditions and it was drinking beautifully.

As far as the broader question goes, do you have any more tasting experiences of monster zins or shiraz with 10 years of age on them?

]]> By: Alder http://www.drvino.com/2007/01/04/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-711 Alder Fri, 05 Jan 2007 15:57:00 +0000 http://70.103.16.189/~drvinoco/wordpress/2007/01/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-711 I had a 97 Turley Zin last year that was fantastic. It's all in the cellaring folks. I had a 97 Turley Zin last year that was fantastic. It’s all in the cellaring folks.

]]> By: Dr. Vino http://www.drvino.com/2007/01/04/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-712 Dr. Vino Thu, 04 Jan 2007 19:52:00 +0000 http://70.103.16.189/~drvinoco/wordpress/2007/01/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-712 Tim and Mike, <BR/><BR/>I'm not surprised that the Ridge zins could hold up. That Paul Draper knows what he's doing. I guess I was holding Turley to the same standard--not anymore! But interesting even his were fatigued at the 15 year mark.<BR/><BR/>Kevin--drink up! (And have a back up ready)<BR/><BR/>And to all--<BR/>Anybody want to buy a miscellaneous collection of two cases of Turleys, 1996-2002? From a Northeastern doctor, impeccable storage, purchased upon release directly from winery, yadda yadda. Tim and Mike,

I’m not surprised that the Ridge zins could hold up. That Paul Draper knows what he’s doing. I guess I was holding Turley to the same standard–not anymore! But interesting even his were fatigued at the 15 year mark.

Kevin–drink up! (And have a back up ready)

And to all–
Anybody want to buy a miscellaneous collection of two cases of Turleys, 1996-2002? From a Northeastern doctor, impeccable storage, purchased upon release directly from winery, yadda yadda.

]]> By: Dr. Vino http://www.drvino.com/2007/01/04/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-713 Dr. Vino Thu, 04 Jan 2007 19:45:00 +0000 http://70.103.16.189/~drvinoco/wordpress/2007/01/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-713 Bill, <BR/><BR/>I love it -- "I was Turleyed."<BR/><BR/>I should make T-shirts! Bill,

I love it — “I was Turleyed.”

I should make T-shirts!

]]> By: Ken http://www.drvino.com/2007/01/04/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-714 Ken Thu, 04 Jan 2007 16:02:00 +0000 http://70.103.16.189/~drvinoco/wordpress/2007/01/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-714 I had a similar experience, but not quite as bad with a 1997 Ridge this year. My wine was drinkable, but just flat and unexciting. It lost all the qualities that I enjoyed when I bought it.<BR/><BR/>Ken<BR/>KensWineGuide.com I had a similar experience, but not quite as bad with a 1997 Ridge this year. My wine was drinkable, but just flat and unexciting. It lost all the qualities that I enjoyed when I bought it.

Ken
KensWineGuide.com

]]> By: Mike in santa cruz http://www.drvino.com/2007/01/04/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-715 Mike in santa cruz Thu, 04 Jan 2007 15:39:00 +0000 http://70.103.16.189/~drvinoco/wordpress/2007/01/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-715 I had a 1991 Ridge Zin from Jimsonmare last week that was amazing, though perhaps slightly past it's prime. It was very subdued when drank by itself, but when paired with food (coq au vin) everybody who was drinking (wino's and casual drinkers alike) thought it was fantastic. It may have been the best "food wine" that I had ever had. Perhaps aged Zinfandel needs to be paired to be appreciated? I had a 1991 Ridge Zin from Jimsonmare last week that was amazing, though perhaps slightly past it’s prime. It was very subdued when drank by itself, but when paired with food (coq au vin) everybody who was drinking (wino’s and casual drinkers alike) thought it was fantastic. It may have been the best “food wine” that I had ever had. Perhaps aged Zinfandel needs to be paired to be appreciated?

]]> By: Kevin T. Neely http://www.drvino.com/2007/01/04/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-716 Kevin T. Neely Thu, 04 Jan 2007 14:59:00 +0000 http://70.103.16.189/~drvinoco/wordpress/2007/01/high-alcohol-wines-are-they-built-to/#comment-716 That's a real shame about the Turley wines. The 97 tasted pretty good at the winery when I bought mine, but that was at least 4 years ago. I'll have to pull it out and hope for the best.<BR/><BR/>For the New Year, we opened some various wines, two were older Zins. One was a '97 from a small place I hadn't ever heard of in Napa (I think Pezzi King, but am a bit addled from that night). The next was a '99 VGS from Chateu Potelle. Both were really excellent, the Potelle still showing huge amounts of fruit. <BR/><BR/>Also opened up a 2000 Onyx from Pine Ridge. It was very good; should have decanted it a bit longer, but was really nice by the end of the meal and went well with my venison. Would probably have been better in 2005, however. That’s a real shame about the Turley wines. The 97 tasted pretty good at the winery when I bought mine, but that was at least 4 years ago. I’ll have to pull it out and hope for the best.

For the New Year, we opened some various wines, two were older Zins. One was a ‘97 from a small place I hadn’t ever heard of in Napa (I think Pezzi King, but am a bit addled from that night). The next was a ‘99 VGS from Chateu Potelle. Both were really excellent, the Potelle still showing huge amounts of fruit.

Also opened up a 2000 Onyx from Pine Ridge. It was very good; should have decanted it a bit longer, but was really nice by the end of the meal and went well with my venison. Would probably have been better in 2005, however.

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